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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 6567863" data-attributes="member: 463">A 4e PC can use Arcana skill to manipulate magical energies, just as much as he can use Thievery to pick a lock. Per RAW, either skill can be extrapolated to a variety of uses beyond the limited specified list, and the GM is given the tools to set reasonable DCs and results.For instance, the GM knows that a PC using Arcana to channel the power of a dead dragon to create a magic sword should not per RAW give more than a PL+4 magic item, because the treasure parcel system suggests that encounters, quests etc generate only items of PL+1 to PL+4; and that is an extreme case - if what is being done is 'routine' and using resources normally available to the PCs then it's PL+0. For non-routine you use the parcel system, for routine you use Enchant Item & its limit.For the process of creating the item, if it's a PL+4 item then at least a Hard check appears to be in order, but using an appropriate Encounter or Daily power appropriately can provide a significant boost, as Pemerton says. I'd probably treat creating a PL+4 item as a Skill Challenge, an encounter in itself - which in 4e per RAW can get treasure packets same as any other encounter. Normally for a simple check I'd be looking at a PL+0 item and simply count the dragon heart as 'worth' the value of an item of that level.My own campaign is pretty low magic, I use Inherent Bonuses so I don't have to worry about whether the PCs are getting their pluses from items. If my PCs harvest 'non-magic' treasures and bits of monsters to make items it's normally for items well below Party Level - the fire ring I mentioned is something like a 15th level Rare item, the PCs were 21st level.Conclusion: Pemerton wasn't stepping outside the bounds of the 4e system as written. It's meant to facilitate & encourage this sort of thing. Personally I can't see how wizards attempting to manipulate chaos energies breaks world-sim, either. That's something I like about 4e - the design allows player contribution to the fiction without breaking immersion.</blockquote>

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