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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6572425" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm not sure what you think I'm saying that you disagree with.</p><p></p><p>I am distinguishing build rules from stat block. PCs in 4e have very different build rules from monsters and NPCs; but the stat blocks are the same (except high level PCs have many more powers; 1st level ones don't, though). This is a clear difference from AD&D or B/X, where - even ignoring the ecology stuff you mention like % in lair and number appearing - monsters don't have the same stats as PCs (no STR, CON, DEX, WIS or CHA; INT as a range rather than a number; or in B/X no ability scores at all, and a morale stat).</p><p></p><p>The fact that PCs and NPCs have the same stats doesn't tell us much about dramatic agenda, though. In 4e the stats are the same but PCs are protagonists - roughly speaking, they get more stuff on their power lists, and more healing surges. Put crudely, their numbers are systematically bigger. This isn't generally true in RQ.</p><p></p><p>Relating that to [MENTION=336]D'karr[/MENTION]'s point about Shadowrun, from the fact that PCs and NPCs record equipment or cyber enhancements in the same way, it doesn't follow that there's no protagonistic difference - maybe the game gives PCs systematically longer and better equipment lists, just like 4e gives PCs longer and better power lists, and Marvel Heroic RP gives PCs better numbers in their dice pools.</p><p></p><p>Conversely, even though in B/X monsters and PCs are statted differently (and NPC stats straddle both approaches without a great deal of clarity), I'm not sure this tells us much about the game's agenda with respect to drama.</p><p></p><p>Overall, I think the "same stat template" thing is mostly (maybe not completely) orthogonal to questions about PC protagonism, which depends more on the build rules and the resolution rules than the way in which the inputs to resolution are organised and labelled.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6572425, member: 42582"] I'm not sure what you think I'm saying that you disagree with. I am distinguishing build rules from stat block. PCs in 4e have very different build rules from monsters and NPCs; but the stat blocks are the same (except high level PCs have many more powers; 1st level ones don't, though). This is a clear difference from AD&D or B/X, where - even ignoring the ecology stuff you mention like % in lair and number appearing - monsters don't have the same stats as PCs (no STR, CON, DEX, WIS or CHA; INT as a range rather than a number; or in B/X no ability scores at all, and a morale stat). The fact that PCs and NPCs have the same stats doesn't tell us much about dramatic agenda, though. In 4e the stats are the same but PCs are protagonists - roughly speaking, they get more stuff on their power lists, and more healing surges. Put crudely, their numbers are systematically bigger. This isn't generally true in RQ. Relating that to [MENTION=336]D'karr[/MENTION]'s point about Shadowrun, from the fact that PCs and NPCs record equipment or cyber enhancements in the same way, it doesn't follow that there's no protagonistic difference - maybe the game gives PCs systematically longer and better equipment lists, just like 4e gives PCs longer and better power lists, and Marvel Heroic RP gives PCs better numbers in their dice pools. Conversely, even though in B/X monsters and PCs are statted differently (and NPC stats straddle both approaches without a great deal of clarity), I'm not sure this tells us much about the game's agenda with respect to drama. Overall, I think the "same stat template" thing is mostly (maybe not completely) orthogonal to questions about PC protagonism, which depends more on the build rules and the resolution rules than the way in which the inputs to resolution are organised and labelled. [/QUOTE]
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