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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6573469" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Maybe I've lost the context, but I don't follow.</p><p></p><p>99% of new business owners - "I don't know if it's possible for me to start and operate successful business, but I'll give it a go". Within 5 years around 80% of them find out that it either wasn't possible, or that if it was possible they didn't know how to do it. Many of that 80% won't know which of those two possibilities was true of them.</p><p></p><p>Me, sitting down to write a paper - "I don't know if I can find an argument that supports XYZ, but I'll give it a go". Sometimes I don't find an argument, but remain committed to XYZ, and so use rhetorical devices to minimise the appearance of gaps in my reasoning. Sometimes I change my mind about XYZ - rarely completely, but at least in nuance. Sometimes I find the argument I wanted.</p><p></p><p>A chaos mage knows that the world was created from chaos, knows that s/he can create magical effects by manipulating chaotic forces, knows that the magic items are a type of magical effect that exist in the world, and knows that ambient chaos energy is present. Can s/he harness that energy to create a magic item, much as the Primordials harnessed that energy to create the world, and much as s/he harnesses that energy to create spell effects? Perhaps - it's not obviously impossible, but the ways of chaos are (naturally) chaotic. Let's give it a go! (Which, in the real world of playing a game, means - Let's set a DC and then roll the dice!)</p><p></p><p>You seem to be saying that there is no such thing as a purely metagame rule.</p><p></p><p>I don't think I agree.</p><p></p><p>In BW, a PC's abilities can advance with practice or training. They also advance from making checks in the game, but there are two sources of constraint on this: (1) because of "say yes or roll the dice", checks are only made when there are genuine dramatic stakes; (2) the rules are very strict that advancement can't occur unless checks are made at a range of difficulties, including (near-)auto-failure, so players have an incentive to manipulate their dice-pool resources and the situations they find themselves in to generate that range of tests, which itself helps achieve dramatic pacing and outcomes.</p><p></p><p>Those are rules, but I don't think they reflect anything about the gameworld. The gameworld I am using for my BW game is Greyhawk, but GH hasn't suddenly become a disc-world style parody driven by the logic of drama.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6573469, member: 42582"] Maybe I've lost the context, but I don't follow. 99% of new business owners - "I don't know if it's possible for me to start and operate successful business, but I'll give it a go". Within 5 years around 80% of them find out that it either wasn't possible, or that if it was possible they didn't know how to do it. Many of that 80% won't know which of those two possibilities was true of them. Me, sitting down to write a paper - "I don't know if I can find an argument that supports XYZ, but I'll give it a go". Sometimes I don't find an argument, but remain committed to XYZ, and so use rhetorical devices to minimise the appearance of gaps in my reasoning. Sometimes I change my mind about XYZ - rarely completely, but at least in nuance. Sometimes I find the argument I wanted. A chaos mage knows that the world was created from chaos, knows that s/he can create magical effects by manipulating chaotic forces, knows that the magic items are a type of magical effect that exist in the world, and knows that ambient chaos energy is present. Can s/he harness that energy to create a magic item, much as the Primordials harnessed that energy to create the world, and much as s/he harnesses that energy to create spell effects? Perhaps - it's not obviously impossible, but the ways of chaos are (naturally) chaotic. Let's give it a go! (Which, in the real world of playing a game, means - Let's set a DC and then roll the dice!) You seem to be saying that there is no such thing as a purely metagame rule. I don't think I agree. In BW, a PC's abilities can advance with practice or training. They also advance from making checks in the game, but there are two sources of constraint on this: (1) because of "say yes or roll the dice", checks are only made when there are genuine dramatic stakes; (2) the rules are very strict that advancement can't occur unless checks are made at a range of difficulties, including (near-)auto-failure, so players have an incentive to manipulate their dice-pool resources and the situations they find themselves in to generate that range of tests, which itself helps achieve dramatic pacing and outcomes. Those are rules, but I don't think they reflect anything about the gameworld. The gameworld I am using for my BW game is Greyhawk, but GH hasn't suddenly become a disc-world style parody driven by the logic of drama. [/QUOTE]
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