Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The Best Thing from 4E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sadras" data-source="post: 6573905" data-attributes="member: 6688277"><p>Funny, many of the the non-4e crowd viewed the 4e system as WoW for table-top. They never observed innovation just amalgamtion, pandering to the whims and likes of the MMO craze which was pulling away the potential RPG fanbase.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p>I'm curious, besides skill checks, which I personally miss but I do incorporate into 5e, what innovations are you talking about - power cards and their ash heaps or graveyards? </p><p>Real innovation will only come once WotC stops pandering to Hindu's and Vegans and slays a few sacred cows.One such example, being the continuous and ridiculous growth of hit points which then requires the remaining mechanics to deal with ever increasing numbers. The last 3 versions of the game suffer from that the most, despite their innovations.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Do you think forging wildly ahead (by WotC) with radically new ideas would have done the hobby/player-base any good?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">And you think WotC, the playerbase, the hobby would better survive having fractured the community once more? Interesting, I think that is very optimistic of you...but</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p></p><p>...this sounds awfully pessimistic. My view on this edition is completely different to yours. </p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Just to mention that there are already 4e enthusiasts drafting power cards for the 5e classes in the Homebrew section of Enworld. I cannot count how many times I have heard 4e players mention that AEDU existed in earlier versions of D&D, so 5e class abilities are just the AEDU in a different format.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Plenty are incorporating their own versions of the 4e Skill Challenge Mechanics in 5e.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Replace Inspiration with Action Points, if you're missing it</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ability Improvements exist in 5e.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monsters are simple in 5e and well most DMs I know tinker with monsters anyway. We all had to given the terribly unbalanced, untested 4e MM1. Didn’t they revise Orcus like 3 times? All I can say is thank god for SlyFlourish’s monster-damage table.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Save Ends was brought across from 4e to 5e.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A decent balance exists between the classes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mechanical alignment is optional as are non-good paladins.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5e has rituals, conditions and you can use grid-play.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Replace Hit Dice with Surges.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Death saves, yup, they are there too.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The 4 Combat Roles. Well we had @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=67338" target="_blank">GMforPowergamers</a></u></strong></em> and @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a></u></strong></em> and a great deal many inform everyone on another thread that those roles have always existed within D&D so I guess, 4e players would identify those roles within 5e. Funny how the OP lists the 4 Combat Roles as if they are exclusive to 4e. @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=48965" target="_blank">Imaro</a></u></strong></em>, @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6731904" target="_blank">SirAntoine</a></u></strong></em> and @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=957" target="_blank">BryonD</a></u></strong></em> would would certainly find this amusing.</li> </ul><p></p><p>If it is a tombstone edition because so much of 4e is in 5e, then I guess you're right, but then that would make 4e a tombstone edition given how much of it exists in 3.5e</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadras, post: 6573905, member: 6688277"] Funny, many of the the non-4e crowd viewed the 4e system as WoW for table-top. They never observed innovation just amalgamtion, pandering to the whims and likes of the MMO craze which was pulling away the potential RPG fanbase. I'm curious, besides skill checks, which I personally miss but I do incorporate into 5e, what innovations are you talking about - power cards and their ash heaps or graveyards? Real innovation will only come once WotC stops pandering to Hindu's and Vegans and slays a few sacred cows.One such example, being the continuous and ridiculous growth of hit points which then requires the remaining mechanics to deal with ever increasing numbers. The last 3 versions of the game suffer from that the most, despite their innovations. [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]Do you think forging wildly ahead (by WotC) with radically new ideas would have done the hobby/player-base any good? And you think WotC, the playerbase, the hobby would better survive having fractured the community once more? Interesting, I think that is very optimistic of you...but [/FONT][/COLOR] ...this sounds awfully pessimistic. My view on this edition is completely different to yours. [LIST] [*]Just to mention that there are already 4e enthusiasts drafting power cards for the 5e classes in the Homebrew section of Enworld. I cannot count how many times I have heard 4e players mention that AEDU existed in earlier versions of D&D, so 5e class abilities are just the AEDU in a different format. [*]Plenty are incorporating their own versions of the 4e Skill Challenge Mechanics in 5e. [*]Replace Inspiration with Action Points, if you're missing it [*]Ability Improvements exist in 5e. [*]Monsters are simple in 5e and well most DMs I know tinker with monsters anyway. We all had to given the terribly unbalanced, untested 4e MM1. Didn’t they revise Orcus like 3 times? All I can say is thank god for SlyFlourish’s monster-damage table. [*]Save Ends was brought across from 4e to 5e. [*]A decent balance exists between the classes. [*]Mechanical alignment is optional as are non-good paladins. [*]5e has rituals, conditions and you can use grid-play. [*]Replace Hit Dice with Surges. [*]Death saves, yup, they are there too. [*]The 4 Combat Roles. Well we had @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=67338"]GMforPowergamers[/URL][/U][/B][/I] and @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582"]pemerton[/URL][/U][/B][/I] and a great deal many inform everyone on another thread that those roles have always existed within D&D so I guess, 4e players would identify those roles within 5e. Funny how the OP lists the 4 Combat Roles as if they are exclusive to 4e. @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=48965"]Imaro[/URL][/U][/B][/I], @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6731904"]SirAntoine[/URL][/U][/B][/I] and @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=957"]BryonD[/URL][/U][/B][/I] would would certainly find this amusing. [/LIST] If it is a tombstone edition because so much of 4e is in 5e, then I guess you're right, but then that would make 4e a tombstone edition given how much of it exists in 3.5e [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The Best Thing from 4E
Top