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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6575551" data-attributes="member: 48965">Again where is the confusion... You seem to want to make it confusing when it's pretty clear when you use which...  No skill system can be a detailed list of everything you can do... but you do want to cover the bases in your particular genre and I do think in the sources D&D pulls on genre wise... the ability to play an instrument without being a full on Bard is present enough that it should be accounted for and in 5e it is...YMMV of course.  Just curious what skill do I use in 4e if I want to play a musical instrument but am not a Bard?    Using Investigation is an Intelligence check... One can definitely be trained in logical deduction as a skill set (there are mental exercises people perform to do just this), it is basically the "Sherlock Holmes" skill.  I think you're inability to use it was probably based more on your DM not structuring situations where it was useful... which can happen to any skill if the DM does not account for them... or your lack of understanding in when to apply the skill...Claiming that one can't be trained to better use deductive reasoning is like claiming that one cannot be trained to better utilize strength in athletic activities... I would assume that if someone is not using something properly... it would be harder thus a penalty... not that said thing that allows you to use a skill properly in fact gives you a bonus on top of your skills...Again, if this is clear what is the confusion around 5e... the mechanical application of thieve's tools in 5e is just as clearly stated... I am literally looking at my Rules Compendium right now at the Dungeoneering skill and it makes no mention of psionics or being applicable to that area... to start off can you quote where that information is?  I also don't see anything around Primal magic in the write-up of the nature skill...could you also quote where that is stated?Note: I am also still wondering what shadow magic falls under?</blockquote>

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