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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The Best Thing from 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6576127" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Not to be NEEDLESSLY snarky, but ARE we just going to CAP things now, since it's MORE convincing that way?</p><p></p><p>In other words: /disagree</p><p></p><p>Wow. I really, really disagree with your take on the 4e skill system. I don't think there's one designated way to calculate DC. I think there is some minor overlap in skills around the edges. I don't think there are very many modifiers spelled out. I don't think there are very many skill uses spelled out.</p><p></p><p>I think 4e skills are broad and vague. And I think I've used them to good effect while GMing. They don't fit my personal preference, but I'm not arguing they're bad design.</p><p></p><p>Which is kinda incoherent to my style. Combat is far from the thing that is most important to me. In my non-4e campaign, combat takes up about 10% of our table time. Last session (about 7 hours of play), there was no combat. The session before that, we had a mass combat (multiple forces attacking a city wall over a couple of days) that lasted nearly the entire session. Over the previous two sessions (about 14 hours of play), we had one combat.</p><p></p><p>Like I pointed out, the action in 4e is already constrained. You can't jump to the moon. There are rules for jumping. You use those rules.</p><p></p><p>The rules in any game is trying to model a certain type of feel, and 4e (and my hypothetical epic RPG) are no exception to this. Rules set limitations.</p><p></p><p>It might always work the same way in your game, sure. But if I go into another GM's game, and he thinks I need to be Paragon to do this at a Moderate DC, instead of Hard in your Heroic game, that makes a difference. The rules don't provide a very strong structure here for the player to rely on. They are subject to the GM's interpretation of when skill checks are possible, and how hard those possible tasks might be.</p><p></p><p>I meant "backstory" as in setting established prior to play, not PC history before play starts. Like, setting stuff; if the PCs make a "right vs left" decision, and it's been set in notes what is right and what is left, then I value sticking to those notes and honoring their decision, no matter how (un)informed that decision might be.</p><p></p><p>I do want to note that it was really easy to get moderately strong PC backstories (in the sense that you meant it) for my 4e campaign. I do think the rules and base game setting lend themselves to this. That is to 4e's credit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 6576127, member: 6668292"] Not to be NEEDLESSLY snarky, but ARE we just going to CAP things now, since it's MORE convincing that way? In other words: /disagree Wow. I really, really disagree with your take on the 4e skill system. I don't think there's one designated way to calculate DC. I think there is some minor overlap in skills around the edges. I don't think there are very many modifiers spelled out. I don't think there are very many skill uses spelled out. I think 4e skills are broad and vague. And I think I've used them to good effect while GMing. They don't fit my personal preference, but I'm not arguing they're bad design. Which is kinda incoherent to my style. Combat is far from the thing that is most important to me. In my non-4e campaign, combat takes up about 10% of our table time. Last session (about 7 hours of play), there was no combat. The session before that, we had a mass combat (multiple forces attacking a city wall over a couple of days) that lasted nearly the entire session. Over the previous two sessions (about 14 hours of play), we had one combat. Like I pointed out, the action in 4e is already constrained. You can't jump to the moon. There are rules for jumping. You use those rules. The rules in any game is trying to model a certain type of feel, and 4e (and my hypothetical epic RPG) are no exception to this. Rules set limitations. It might always work the same way in your game, sure. But if I go into another GM's game, and he thinks I need to be Paragon to do this at a Moderate DC, instead of Hard in your Heroic game, that makes a difference. The rules don't provide a very strong structure here for the player to rely on. They are subject to the GM's interpretation of when skill checks are possible, and how hard those possible tasks might be. I meant "backstory" as in setting established prior to play, not PC history before play starts. Like, setting stuff; if the PCs make a "right vs left" decision, and it's been set in notes what is right and what is left, then I value sticking to those notes and honoring their decision, no matter how (un)informed that decision might be. I do want to note that it was really easy to get moderately strong PC backstories (in the sense that you meant it) for my 4e campaign. I do think the rules and base game setting lend themselves to this. That is to 4e's credit. [/QUOTE]
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