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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6577942" data-attributes="member: 82106">No, what I'm saying is that EVEN THOUGH IT IS A FOCUS of the game, the actual choice of one weapon over another is relatively unimportant. Yes, there are some details broken out for weapons, but my point was that given that musical instruments are FAR less important than weapons, they certainly merit far less consideration, like not much at all for the most part.Again, see above. There's just not enough importance to instruments to NEED a set of proficiencies for them on the order of what exists for weapons (in some editions, the majority of D&D editions have weapon proficiency as at most an optional rule, though this type of thing has come more to the fore with later editions).Again, this is not arbitrary, the social skills have fairly specific functions and any use of music would probably fall under them (I can think of a few corner cases, like a 'Close Encounters' style message or something, but you can still use an ability check or some other skill for that.Only because 4e focuses very heavily on combat. There's simply no need to regulate ordinary non-magical use of music in the same way as rapiers. Even so the resource used to be good with a rapier (assuming it isn't just granted in bulk along with other weapons by your class) is not all that huge. Do you really think the average character should have to pay a feat to use the Lute? Really?And I said, if the character is going to be deploying some sort of magical effects via music, if the playing itself is a power, etc then indeed this should be, and in 4e is, regulated. If its just a vehicle to deploy an existing skill or ability check then it doesn't need to be so regulated. Honestly, music doesn't come up THAT often in our games. I don't think it needs feats and skills and etc burned on it.If you miss a note its really going to spoil the whole performance. Elton John doesn't get out on stage and completely bungle a piece. If you really are skilled, then maybe you hit a flat note once in a great while, like anyone, but the power of your playing isn't in one note. We can assume that if you have 'can play lute' on your sheet then you can play it 'well enough'. As I've said several times, if its  really that critical a part of the plot it won't be a single skill check roll anyway. Its not eliminated from the game though. Its simply relegated to a very peripheral place where it doesn't require a resource to designate it. Nobody is suggesting that players should be dropping 'can play lute' onto their sheet at the instant it becomes advantageous and retconning their characters. Its something they will have chosen, presumably because they like the idea or whatever, and then maybe they'll choose to bring it into play as a part of the narrative. If it is instead a proficiency that the players HAVE to spend a precious slot on, then they're MUCH less likely to bring it into play at all, since it is still no more useful than before. OK, but you've just ended all debate of any sort on any game rules at all! Its all 'preferences' because its all just a diversion we pursue in our spare time. Unless you're a pro game designer its all 'academic'. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The skills I suggest, no they aren't 'used to play' in the most literal sense, they are used to gauge the character's ability to play the right thing, in the right way, at the right moment etc in order to achieve his goal best. Even if the character is playing for the incredibly picky music critic of a King he's still going to want to find the music the King will react to best (Insight), one that is culturally acceptable (History), and that doesn't piss off anyone in court (Streetwise), and to play it in the style most likely to gain approval (maybe Insight again, or a Cha check). You might also include a DEX check to avoid making some technical mistake that this particular person is sensitive to since they're such a critic. For an ordinary room at the tavern I don't think you would ever need to worry about the technical playing ability you have.No, read the sidebar in PHB2 at the end of the backgrounds section. It talks about the application of bonuses to any situation that falls within the background's area. Nothing about this is houseruled at all. The player is perfectly within his rights to select entertainment and playing an instrument as a background element. Nothing STRICTLY SPEAKING says that the player couldn't specifically ask for a +2 to 'playing musical instrument checks' as his one character-wide background bonus. Its non-standard, but the background rules are stated as open-ended WRT these bonuses, the DM would simply have to say 'yes'. Admittedly this part of 4e's rules are LOOSE, but that's how they were designed.</blockquote>

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