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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6579272" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Um. I think 4e is still obviously limited in the types of flavor it allows. Which, presumably, is what it wants to do (that's what most non-point-buy, non-toolbox games want to do). It limits what you can do, what you can use, etc., rather than leaving it up to you.</p><p></p><p>For example, my RPG has no races at its core, but it has rules on making them; this allows for whatever you want to make using the rules. It's a true toolbox. Same thing goes for games like Hero or Mutants and Masterminds or whatever. But games like D&D -which have a particular flavor with a particular sort of setting in mind- must necessarily place limits on things in order to achieve the flavor they want. In my opinion, D&D isn't really meant to be a game-as-toolbox. I maybe thought 3.X was meant that way at one point, years and years ago, but after using my system, M&M, etc., I just can't reasonably hold that position anymore.</p><p></p><p>Limiting flavor isn't in any way inherently bad. I'm just pointing out that 4e does it constantly, just as prior editions did. And, to the original point that spawned this little diversion, me codifying Epic-abilities would necessarily limit flavor, yes. But that's something that nearly all RPGs strive for, because it defines setting and produces a particular kind of game. So I'm okay with the hypothetical Epic-level RPG of mine doing exactly that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 6579272, member: 6668292"] Um. I think 4e is still obviously limited in the types of flavor it allows. Which, presumably, is what it wants to do (that's what most non-point-buy, non-toolbox games want to do). It limits what you can do, what you can use, etc., rather than leaving it up to you. For example, my RPG has no races at its core, but it has rules on making them; this allows for whatever you want to make using the rules. It's a true toolbox. Same thing goes for games like Hero or Mutants and Masterminds or whatever. But games like D&D -which have a particular flavor with a particular sort of setting in mind- must necessarily place limits on things in order to achieve the flavor they want. In my opinion, D&D isn't really meant to be a game-as-toolbox. I maybe thought 3.X was meant that way at one point, years and years ago, but after using my system, M&M, etc., I just can't reasonably hold that position anymore. Limiting flavor isn't in any way inherently bad. I'm just pointing out that 4e does it constantly, just as prior editions did. And, to the original point that spawned this little diversion, me codifying Epic-abilities would necessarily limit flavor, yes. But that's something that nearly all RPGs strive for, because it defines setting and produces a particular kind of game. So I'm okay with the hypothetical Epic-level RPG of mine doing exactly that. [/QUOTE]
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