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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 6579613" data-attributes="member: 85870"><p>Well, see, it's funny, because I'll be the first to admit that Savage Worlds has gamist / metagame mechanics poking out in a number of spots. For instance, it still bothers me sometimes how "metagamed" and "dissociated" the wound soaking system is in Savage Worlds, because on a certain level it plays against SW's ability to draw reasonably plausible, "verisimilitudinous" resolutions for nearly everything else. </p><p></p><p>But even then, I don't mind its gamist/metagame proud nails nearly as much as I do D&D's. Why? Because the core mechanic, though less granular than other "toolbox," skill-based systems, manages to abstract basic determination of human competency in a surprisingly elegant way. And for me, this is the level of resolution I care about. I don't really care how well Savage Worlds models dragons, and liches, and balors (oh my!); I care how well it models "grounded human" capacity---which it does very well, if you're willing to approach it from a more casual, streamlined standpoint. I like the elegant "nods to realism" in Savage; the overly prescriptive "realism" of GURPS leaves me cold. But for someone who likes stuff like GURPS, HERO, or Runequest, Savage Worlds will be inadequate.</p><p></p><p>So too, if the "high fantasy," intricately interlocking tactical combat of 4e is your bag, SW will not scratch that itch fully. </p><p></p><p>Savage sits in an odd design space---it's not "gamist" enough for the hardcore battle tacticians, it's not "narrativist" enough for people who dig Fate, Cortex+, etc., and it's not "simulationist" enough for the people that are drawn to stuff like Runequest, GURPS, and EABA. What it does provide is a gameplay experience that gives nods to all three, while keeping the core resolution mechanic fast, and with enough "nods to realism" to give it its widely-acclaimed flexibility and fun. </p><p></p><p>(Interestingly, though, take away the concept of bennies and "soaking" wounds, and make the skill system slightly more rigorous, and Savage Worlds can hit a fairly high threshold of "simulationism." It will be a more casual form of simulationism, but in most cases the "process sim" side of Savage Worlds works very well. And once again it does all this without without the legacy strictures and detritus of D&D [classes & levels, Vancian casting, hit points, armor class] that I've grown to dislike.)</p><p></p><p>In terms of balance, I'm guessing you just haven't had enough experience with the system to see that it's one of the most balanced systems out there, at least in terms of allowing a wide variety of realized character concepts to make meaningful contributions in all phases of the game. Is it perfectly balanced? No. There are some moderately more optimal, and some moderately more sub-optimal build choices. But in play, every character I've seen has meaningfully contributed both in and out of combat. And I certainly can't say that about ANY D&D campaign I've played. As a GM I never, ever feel like I have to "tailor" an adventure to one character's strengths or weaknesses. I could if I wanted to, but I don't need to. I never worry if a player is going to be left out, because it just doesn't happen in Savage Worlds.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 6579613, member: 85870"] Well, see, it's funny, because I'll be the first to admit that Savage Worlds has gamist / metagame mechanics poking out in a number of spots. For instance, it still bothers me sometimes how "metagamed" and "dissociated" the wound soaking system is in Savage Worlds, because on a certain level it plays against SW's ability to draw reasonably plausible, "verisimilitudinous" resolutions for nearly everything else. But even then, I don't mind its gamist/metagame proud nails nearly as much as I do D&D's. Why? Because the core mechanic, though less granular than other "toolbox," skill-based systems, manages to abstract basic determination of human competency in a surprisingly elegant way. And for me, this is the level of resolution I care about. I don't really care how well Savage Worlds models dragons, and liches, and balors (oh my!); I care how well it models "grounded human" capacity---which it does very well, if you're willing to approach it from a more casual, streamlined standpoint. I like the elegant "nods to realism" in Savage; the overly prescriptive "realism" of GURPS leaves me cold. But for someone who likes stuff like GURPS, HERO, or Runequest, Savage Worlds will be inadequate. So too, if the "high fantasy," intricately interlocking tactical combat of 4e is your bag, SW will not scratch that itch fully. Savage sits in an odd design space---it's not "gamist" enough for the hardcore battle tacticians, it's not "narrativist" enough for people who dig Fate, Cortex+, etc., and it's not "simulationist" enough for the people that are drawn to stuff like Runequest, GURPS, and EABA. What it does provide is a gameplay experience that gives nods to all three, while keeping the core resolution mechanic fast, and with enough "nods to realism" to give it its widely-acclaimed flexibility and fun. (Interestingly, though, take away the concept of bennies and "soaking" wounds, and make the skill system slightly more rigorous, and Savage Worlds can hit a fairly high threshold of "simulationism." It will be a more casual form of simulationism, but in most cases the "process sim" side of Savage Worlds works very well. And once again it does all this without without the legacy strictures and detritus of D&D [classes & levels, Vancian casting, hit points, armor class] that I've grown to dislike.) In terms of balance, I'm guessing you just haven't had enough experience with the system to see that it's one of the most balanced systems out there, at least in terms of allowing a wide variety of realized character concepts to make meaningful contributions in all phases of the game. Is it perfectly balanced? No. There are some moderately more optimal, and some moderately more sub-optimal build choices. But in play, every character I've seen has meaningfully contributed both in and out of combat. And I certainly can't say that about ANY D&D campaign I've played. As a GM I never, ever feel like I have to "tailor" an adventure to one character's strengths or weaknesses. I could if I wanted to, but I don't need to. I never worry if a player is going to be left out, because it just doesn't happen in Savage Worlds. [/QUOTE]
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