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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6582054" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>On the question of whether you can get story without mechanics, or having someone (eg the GM) pay attention to it, this passage by Ron Edwards seems relevant (the title is "Ouija-board roleplaying"):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">How do Ouija boards work? People sit around a board with letters and numbers on it, all touching a legged planchette that can slide around on the board. They pretend that spectral forces are moving the planchette around to spell messages. What's happening is that, at any given moment, <em>someone</em> is guiding the planchette, and the point is to make sure that the planchette always appears to everyone else to be moving under its own power.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Taking this idea to role-playing, the deluded notion is that Simulationist play will yield Story Now play without any specific attention on anyone's part to do so. The primary issue is to maintain the facade that "No one guides the planchette!" The participants must be devoted to the notion that stories don't need authors; they emerge from some ineffable confluence of Exploration per se. It's kind of a weird Illusionism perpetrated on one another, with everyone putting enormous value on maintaining the Black Curtain between them and everyone else. Typically, groups who play this way have been together for a very long time.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">My call is, you get what you play for. Can you address Premise this way? Sure, on the monkeys-might-fly-out-my-butt principle. But the key to un-premeditated artistry of this sort (cutup fiction, splatter painting, cinema verite) is to know what to throw out, and role-playing does not include that option, at least not very easily. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Rarely, another person participates and (horrors!) actually overtly moves the planchette, or discusses how it's being moved. That person is instantly ejected, with cries of "powergamer!" and "pushy bastard!"</p><p></p><p>Not very far upthread, [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION] asked "So what it is it about 4e that so uniquely pushes characters into fictional positioning "spaces" that allow for this kind of play?" I don't know about "uniquely" - 4e isn't the only "story now" fantasy RPG out there.</p><p></p><p>But what it has is lots of ways for players to overtly move the planchette. Choices of build elements (race, theme, paragon path, epic destiny). Choices during action resolution (when to us which powers for which effects; when to use an action point; etc). For instance, when a player spends a daily power, uses an action point, and spends another daily, s/he is saying "I care about this current situation, and I'm going to make a difference to it!" We're not just rolling the same old dice and hoping they come up 20 rather than 1.</p><p></p><p>There's other stuff on the GM side, too, in particular how the rules get out of the way of the GM framing scenes and managing the backstory in a way that promotes rather than impedes dramatic play. But on the player side I think that's pretty much the gist of it.</p><p></p><p>EDIT:</p><p></p><p>Here's an email exchange between me and one of my players yesterday:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Another thought, namely, Jett's paragon path.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">If you stay with Demonskin Adpet, you really are choosing to go down the dark path, as there is no longer any mediation - Jett would be aligning himself with the raw forces of the Demonweb.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">If Jett wants to go down another path, a quick review of PHB2 and Arcane Power suggest Voice of Thunder and Essence Mage as possibilities.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Thoughts?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">************************</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Jett has been chasing power to accomplish his great goal. With Lolth defeated, he will be a drow redeemed. Voice of Thunder, thanks be to Great Father.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Updated Jett attached. With the multi-class, power swapping and paragon path he’s nearly half bard.</p><p></p><p>That's PC build elements being used to overtly move the planchette!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6582054, member: 42582"] On the question of whether you can get story without mechanics, or having someone (eg the GM) pay attention to it, this passage by Ron Edwards seems relevant (the title is "Ouija-board roleplaying"): [indent]How do Ouija boards work? People sit around a board with letters and numbers on it, all touching a legged planchette that can slide around on the board. They pretend that spectral forces are moving the planchette around to spell messages. What's happening is that, at any given moment, [I]someone[/I] is guiding the planchette, and the point is to make sure that the planchette always appears to everyone else to be moving under its own power. Taking this idea to role-playing, the deluded notion is that Simulationist play will yield Story Now play without any specific attention on anyone's part to do so. The primary issue is to maintain the facade that "No one guides the planchette!" The participants must be devoted to the notion that stories don't need authors; they emerge from some ineffable confluence of Exploration per se. It's kind of a weird Illusionism perpetrated on one another, with everyone putting enormous value on maintaining the Black Curtain between them and everyone else. Typically, groups who play this way have been together for a very long time. My call is, you get what you play for. Can you address Premise this way? Sure, on the monkeys-might-fly-out-my-butt principle. But the key to un-premeditated artistry of this sort (cutup fiction, splatter painting, cinema verite) is to know what to throw out, and role-playing does not include that option, at least not very easily. . . . Rarely, another person participates and (horrors!) actually overtly moves the planchette, or discusses how it's being moved. That person is instantly ejected, with cries of "powergamer!" and "pushy bastard!"[/indent] Not very far upthread, [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION] asked "So what it is it about 4e that so uniquely pushes characters into fictional positioning "spaces" that allow for this kind of play?" I don't know about "uniquely" - 4e isn't the only "story now" fantasy RPG out there. But what it has is lots of ways for players to overtly move the planchette. Choices of build elements (race, theme, paragon path, epic destiny). Choices during action resolution (when to us which powers for which effects; when to use an action point; etc). For instance, when a player spends a daily power, uses an action point, and spends another daily, s/he is saying "I care about this current situation, and I'm going to make a difference to it!" We're not just rolling the same old dice and hoping they come up 20 rather than 1. There's other stuff on the GM side, too, in particular how the rules get out of the way of the GM framing scenes and managing the backstory in a way that promotes rather than impedes dramatic play. But on the player side I think that's pretty much the gist of it. EDIT: Here's an email exchange between me and one of my players yesterday: [indent]Another thought, namely, Jett's paragon path. If you stay with Demonskin Adpet, you really are choosing to go down the dark path, as there is no longer any mediation - Jett would be aligning himself with the raw forces of the Demonweb. If Jett wants to go down another path, a quick review of PHB2 and Arcane Power suggest Voice of Thunder and Essence Mage as possibilities. Thoughts? ************************ Jett has been chasing power to accomplish his great goal. With Lolth defeated, he will be a drow redeemed. Voice of Thunder, thanks be to Great Father. Updated Jett attached. With the multi-class, power swapping and paragon path he’s nearly half bard.[/indent] That's PC build elements being used to overtly move the planchette! [/QUOTE]
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