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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 6583962" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>One of the characters in the game I run has had CaGi (or the higher-level replacement, Warrior's Urging) since level 7 (when it became available).It has not been used in every encounter and it has been used in a very varied selection of circumstances; sometimes it is useful, sometimes less so. What is critical is, as an Estate Agent might say, "situation, situation and situation."</p><p></p><p>This actually brings up an issue that I find important regarding 4E; the "creativity" thing. I have found 4E to have a real sweet spot in terms of being hugely creative <strong><em>with the set powers</em></strong>. Blagging the GM for what you can persuade them to let you get away with is all very well, but taking written powers and making them really leverage the specific situation is something I find genuinely creative. And the players I GM for seem to pull it off run after run after run. Different every time - as I said, situation, situation, situation...</p><p></p><p></p><p>All of which were pure GM fiat in any but 3.x, in which they were only really useful if you had the feat and even then were often suboptimal...</p><p></p><p>In 4E most of them are powers and the rest can be deduced from Page 42.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know what generation you are talking about, but I started GMing sometime around 1978 and this is my considered view in the light of experience with lots of games since then:</p><p></p><p>"The system makes the DM" is reversed; the GM makes the system. Either they make it up on the fly (which seems to be largely what you are talking about) or they specify in writing what the system will be (including published rules or not, as they see fit) so that the players may know the rules and get a model in their heads concerning how the game world works that is not completely subject to the GM's kybosh.</p><p></p><p>If I do not choose to run 4E (or one of the other systems I currently favour), I could use 4E-ish methods and mechanisms, absolutely. But why would I want to do that without leveraging the rules that the 4E designers have written down for me? I strongly disagree with making up "rulings" (= ad hoc system made up as we play) unless absolutely neccessary precisely because the players have no model of the game world that way.</p><p></p><p>The idea that a kludge of GM wish fulfillment, heuristics, misunderstandings and biases form a good basis for a "system" I'm afraid I simply don't buy into.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There were two forms of such "creativity":</p><p></p><p>1) Using the clear and unambiguous effect of the spells in clever ways. This is very, very similar to the use of 4E powers I describe above, and just as laudable. The difference with 4E is that you don't need to be a spellcaster to do it.</p><p></p><p>2) Leveraging ambiguous, sloppily worded or vaguely defined spells to mean something that you can manage to persuade the GM it means in order to get a powerful effect. I put this in the same basket as the rest of the "blag the GM to get whatever you can get away with", except that it tends IME to be even easier and more extreme because "it's magic and magic can break the rules of reality, because it's magic..."</p><p></p><p>It's not even so much that I find the second one bad - I just find it boring these days. I see the man behind the curtain.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 6583962, member: 27160"] One of the characters in the game I run has had CaGi (or the higher-level replacement, Warrior's Urging) since level 7 (when it became available).It has not been used in every encounter and it has been used in a very varied selection of circumstances; sometimes it is useful, sometimes less so. What is critical is, as an Estate Agent might say, "situation, situation and situation." This actually brings up an issue that I find important regarding 4E; the "creativity" thing. I have found 4E to have a real sweet spot in terms of being hugely creative [B][I]with the set powers[/I][/B]. Blagging the GM for what you can persuade them to let you get away with is all very well, but taking written powers and making them really leverage the specific situation is something I find genuinely creative. And the players I GM for seem to pull it off run after run after run. Different every time - as I said, situation, situation, situation... All of which were pure GM fiat in any but 3.x, in which they were only really useful if you had the feat and even then were often suboptimal... In 4E most of them are powers and the rest can be deduced from Page 42. I don't know what generation you are talking about, but I started GMing sometime around 1978 and this is my considered view in the light of experience with lots of games since then: "The system makes the DM" is reversed; the GM makes the system. Either they make it up on the fly (which seems to be largely what you are talking about) or they specify in writing what the system will be (including published rules or not, as they see fit) so that the players may know the rules and get a model in their heads concerning how the game world works that is not completely subject to the GM's kybosh. If I do not choose to run 4E (or one of the other systems I currently favour), I could use 4E-ish methods and mechanisms, absolutely. But why would I want to do that without leveraging the rules that the 4E designers have written down for me? I strongly disagree with making up "rulings" (= ad hoc system made up as we play) unless absolutely neccessary precisely because the players have no model of the game world that way. The idea that a kludge of GM wish fulfillment, heuristics, misunderstandings and biases form a good basis for a "system" I'm afraid I simply don't buy into. There were two forms of such "creativity": 1) Using the clear and unambiguous effect of the spells in clever ways. This is very, very similar to the use of 4E powers I describe above, and just as laudable. The difference with 4E is that you don't need to be a spellcaster to do it. 2) Leveraging ambiguous, sloppily worded or vaguely defined spells to mean something that you can manage to persuade the GM it means in order to get a powerful effect. I put this in the same basket as the rest of the "blag the GM to get whatever you can get away with", except that it tends IME to be even easier and more extreme because "it's magic and magic can break the rules of reality, because it's magic..." It's not even so much that I find the second one bad - I just find it boring these days. I see the man behind the curtain. [/QUOTE]
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