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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6585057" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, you have a fairly specific set of preferences. That's OK, but of course the world may leave you behind. Swing was a ubiquitous dance style once, but if you like it today you have to find the small percentage of people who like that one type of dancing so much that they keep it up even though it went out of style at least 60 years ago.Oh, I don't actually disagree too much with you in a sense. I think a lot of what happened with 4e though was that people cracked the book, were put off by the fact that it changed things, not how it changed them or what it changed them to, and never really gave it a fair chance from there. WotC exacerbated the whole thing in several ways. They poked fun at older styles of play, they failed to really understand and articulate a lot of what was better about 4e, and they made horrible adventures and adventure writing advice that turned off even me (luckily I don't run canned adventures pretty much ever, so it had minimal impact on me). I agree too that trends are cyclical. 3.x and the OGL/SRD lead to a whole backlash and release of many OSR games just at the time 4e was being released. It is highly antithetical to a lot of what the OSR people hold dear, and garnered their wrath in spades. I expect the OSR cycle is about spent now though, and games will start to swing back in some other direction. Ironically if WotC hadn't reversed course with 5e they might have a game well-positioned to capitalize on that (4e with some improvements). 5e will have to do it for them, but I suspect they may have mistaken cycles for more fundamental market splits.Well, we broke them down by agenda, roughly. Many people hold that there are dramatic, gamist, and simulationist agendas. All games address each of them in some fashion or relate to those aspects that all games have. So you're playing games with a highly simulationist agenda, whereas 4e is much more gamist/narrativist. They are all RPGs, we all play characters.Oh, I'm not really offended, I think 'Story-Telling Game' is OK, though I do believe its the narrativist subset of RPGs, not a separate thing. The 'earned it' thing might have been a BIT extreme, but I don't think anyone here is super touchy these days. It was certainly one of the buttons that got pushed a whole bunch during the edition war, so it can raise some flags...Anyway, the discussions that have happened here have been pretty good-natured, in good faith, at least IMHO. Much better than what could be had 2 years ago, even on EW.</blockquote>

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