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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The Best Thing from 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 6587819" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>By the code of conduct to which I adhere, as a DM, I will not do this. I'm not going to meta-game, to guarantee that convenient coincidences actually happen. I will put that NPC where it <em>makes sense</em> for that NPC to be, and if the players find her, then great. If they don't find her, then so be it. It's not my place to force the encounter. The players must be in charge of their own fates.</p><p></p><p>That sounds like meta-gaming to me. It's the DM controlling where the PCs end up, which is a huge violation of player agency. The only time where I would consider this acceptable would be in the pre-game. You can open with whatever scene you want, because that's part of the premise, but once the game actually <em>starts</em> it is no longer an option.</p><p></p><p>It's a plot hook, possibly, but it's only a type of railroad if the players are forced to engage with it. In that sense, it's more like a marked trail, that they're free to stray from at any point. Or it could amount to local color, and not lead to anything very interesting. If the players choose to pick up on it, then it should be because they're playing the types of PCs who like helping random strangers at the bar, and not because the players expect the DM to have contrived this situation for their benefit.</p><p></p><p>Really? I would find that quite satisfying, for all of those previously-ignored clues to suddenly click into place.</p><p></p><p>That's on you, though. You shouldn't see it as a punishment, because you should trust that the DM is neutral on the matter. The DM never told you that the sacrifices would wait for you. The DM never told you what was or was-not in the library. You gambled that you had the time, and you gambled that you might find something useful, and you lost.</p><p></p><p>If you do see it as a punishment, then that feeling would be based on your belief that the DM is supposed to contrive dramatically satisfying scenarios for you. You should probably talk that over with the DM, before you join the game. Although, to briefly return to the topic at hand, you might take that as a given for a 4E game, but not necessarily for any other edition - if you're going into the game with that sort of goal, then you might as well play the edition that supports it.</p><p></p><p>And that still seems misleading, to me. All of the choices are in the hands of the players, and only their outcomes are uncertain. If the DM is doing a reasonable job of describing the world, then the players should feel ownership over their decisions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 6587819, member: 6775031"] By the code of conduct to which I adhere, as a DM, I will not do this. I'm not going to meta-game, to guarantee that convenient coincidences actually happen. I will put that NPC where it [I]makes sense[/I] for that NPC to be, and if the players find her, then great. If they don't find her, then so be it. It's not my place to force the encounter. The players must be in charge of their own fates. That sounds like meta-gaming to me. It's the DM controlling where the PCs end up, which is a huge violation of player agency. The only time where I would consider this acceptable would be in the pre-game. You can open with whatever scene you want, because that's part of the premise, but once the game actually [I]starts[/I] it is no longer an option. It's a plot hook, possibly, but it's only a type of railroad if the players are forced to engage with it. In that sense, it's more like a marked trail, that they're free to stray from at any point. Or it could amount to local color, and not lead to anything very interesting. If the players choose to pick up on it, then it should be because they're playing the types of PCs who like helping random strangers at the bar, and not because the players expect the DM to have contrived this situation for their benefit. Really? I would find that quite satisfying, for all of those previously-ignored clues to suddenly click into place. That's on you, though. You shouldn't see it as a punishment, because you should trust that the DM is neutral on the matter. The DM never told you that the sacrifices would wait for you. The DM never told you what was or was-not in the library. You gambled that you had the time, and you gambled that you might find something useful, and you lost. If you do see it as a punishment, then that feeling would be based on your belief that the DM is supposed to contrive dramatically satisfying scenarios for you. You should probably talk that over with the DM, before you join the game. Although, to briefly return to the topic at hand, you might take that as a given for a 4E game, but not necessarily for any other edition - if you're going into the game with that sort of goal, then you might as well play the edition that supports it. And that still seems misleading, to me. All of the choices are in the hands of the players, and only their outcomes are uncertain. If the DM is doing a reasonable job of describing the world, then the players should feel ownership over their decisions. [/QUOTE]
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