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<blockquote data-quote="TheFindus" data-source="post: 6594698" data-attributes="member: 75791"><p>But player opinions always play a role in the game. In session 0,, everybody at the table regularily discusses likes and dislikes, genre, the game world etc. "I would like to play a demon hunter" shows the DM that the player wants to hunt demons. If the game ends up not being about demon hunting at all, there is a big chance that that player will not like that game, don't you agree? And all of this information frames the content of game world and the scenarios that happen in it. Also, different players find different stuff believable or plausible and the DM needs to take this into account. So do the the players btw. It is information on a metalevel that influences what the game will be about. It is this "other stuff" which already plays a big part in any RPG really. Is it therefore not too much to ask for it not to play any role?</p><p>As far as I understand you, you want to uphold the very illusion that this is not the case. You want to play a game but pretend you are not?</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is fudging (cheating) because it deviates from a set mechanic for *action* resolution, here combat or saving throws.</p><p>What we are talking about is scene content, which is a totally different matter. We are talking about whether a die roll on a DM constructed table is actually necessary to find out what the content of a situation has to be in order to feel plausible and/or takes away player agency. This is a different thing, apples and oranges.</p><p>That said, there are RPGs in which the DM does not roll any dice to find out if a monster hit (Dungeon World for which [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] gave an example upthread) or what the damage of a hit is (minions in 4E or all monsters in 13th Age).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheFindus, post: 6594698, member: 75791"] But player opinions always play a role in the game. In session 0,, everybody at the table regularily discusses likes and dislikes, genre, the game world etc. "I would like to play a demon hunter" shows the DM that the player wants to hunt demons. If the game ends up not being about demon hunting at all, there is a big chance that that player will not like that game, don't you agree? And all of this information frames the content of game world and the scenarios that happen in it. Also, different players find different stuff believable or plausible and the DM needs to take this into account. So do the the players btw. It is information on a metalevel that influences what the game will be about. It is this "other stuff" which already plays a big part in any RPG really. Is it therefore not too much to ask for it not to play any role? As far as I understand you, you want to uphold the very illusion that this is not the case. You want to play a game but pretend you are not? This is fudging (cheating) because it deviates from a set mechanic for *action* resolution, here combat or saving throws. What we are talking about is scene content, which is a totally different matter. We are talking about whether a die roll on a DM constructed table is actually necessary to find out what the content of a situation has to be in order to feel plausible and/or takes away player agency. This is a different thing, apples and oranges. That said, there are RPGs in which the DM does not roll any dice to find out if a monster hit (Dungeon World for which [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] gave an example upthread) or what the damage of a hit is (minions in 4E or all monsters in 13th Age). [/QUOTE]
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