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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6595501" data-attributes="member: 82106">But this is the very quixotic definition of which I speak. 'FORCE' IMHO consists in the DM using his innate authority in such a way as to achieve his own ends regardless of what the players are trying to do. The quintessential expression being 'rocks fall, you die', the DM wants your character dead, no narrative is offered which is world-coherent at all, no avoidance is possible, the DM simply achieves his aim, the character is dead (presumably the player doesn't desire this end, if he did then the question of force is moot). Your definition OTOH literally has no meaning except within your own highly niche style of play. The ENTIRETY of the way we play D&D at my table is by your definition 'DM Force', yet the players are entirely directing the course of the story! Can you see how your definition, useful as it might possibly be to you in discussing qualities of your own agenda, is utterly dysfunctional in any other context! You literally CANNOT debate RP agendas with anyone except other 'naturalists'! OTOH our definition works for everyone and still has considerable meaning within your style of play. The question is begged, which definition is better?I disagree, there's no set 'plausibility budget' or amount of plausibility which MUST exist. Games can be entirely implausible and work perfectly well. For instance nobody would for an instant doubt that every single game of CoC ever run has a vastly implausible plotline in which the PCs, all reporters, detectives, etc just happen to come together and be exposed to the most well-hidden secrets in creation, not once, but time and time again! Even sticking to D&D I don't find any real need for the type of plausibility you suggest. I'd suggest that there should instead be a certain amount of 'narrative integrity'. That is NPCs (and PCs if you want the game to really work well) should act in accordance with their nature, goals, and limitations. The events which transpire should fit together in some sort of causal framework, or at least not mutually contradict (this point was made in the map discussion much earlier by [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]). Even narrative integrity might be superseded by other considerations in rare situations (maybe a retcon, or some sort of 'breakdown of reality' scenario, a hallucination, trip to the Far Realm, time travel, etc).</blockquote>

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