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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The Best Thing from 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6615633" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>As much as I like 4e I have come to the conclusion that there ARE certain 'core' faults, things in the overall design that detract. I think there are too many levels, the game should be 18 or 20 levels. By this I mean your Epic Apotheosis should happen AT level 20, not that Epic should be discarded. This would decrease the number of required levels of powers, and by reducing the number of levels where things have to be given to the PC allow cutting out 'dead wood' stuff. Powers should scale so that you can keep using 'Fireball' for all 20 levels, it just gets better. This removes the need for a lot of higher level powers. The same process allows the existence of MANY less feats and a more 5e-like feat menu where you only pick a feat at a few levels and that feat provides significant mechanical weight, enabling an entire character concept, or adding a significant feature to the character. I would move some powers from class to source, so there could be some basic martial powers that all 'warrior' type characters are able to choose. They would take on role character by interaction with class features. The 10k+ power inventory and 5k+ feat inventory of 4e could be reduced by a factor of 10 in this fashion without sacrificing any real character options.</p><p></p><p>I would much more heavily leverage the use of the 'disease' track for various things. It could be used to represent any sort of 'affliction', curses, wounds, poisons, diseases, etc. Rituals should be rewritten so that they all scale both in cost and effect as you level (some can be entirely non-scaling of course, there are some that just don't need to scale). This was done inconsistently on an ad-hoc basis. </p><p></p><p>Items really were pretty all over the place. I'd just start over and write up really iconic and interesting items and give each one a lot of design room. There would be one sort of fire weapon, not 6 different ones, etc. Bring them back to the real classics too. </p><p></p><p>There are other real significant things I'd change somewhat. I think the combat system is too gimmicky, insufficiently tactical in a genuine way, and clearly can be far too slow in plot terms. All of that can be easily corrected. </p><p></p><p>Clearly most of this cannot happen within the bounds of 4e compatibility and thus would have to represent a new game design. Sadly I think 4e has taken its course. It is a great game, but filling out the little bits and pieces and polishing things in small ways isn't really enough.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6615633, member: 82106"] As much as I like 4e I have come to the conclusion that there ARE certain 'core' faults, things in the overall design that detract. I think there are too many levels, the game should be 18 or 20 levels. By this I mean your Epic Apotheosis should happen AT level 20, not that Epic should be discarded. This would decrease the number of required levels of powers, and by reducing the number of levels where things have to be given to the PC allow cutting out 'dead wood' stuff. Powers should scale so that you can keep using 'Fireball' for all 20 levels, it just gets better. This removes the need for a lot of higher level powers. The same process allows the existence of MANY less feats and a more 5e-like feat menu where you only pick a feat at a few levels and that feat provides significant mechanical weight, enabling an entire character concept, or adding a significant feature to the character. I would move some powers from class to source, so there could be some basic martial powers that all 'warrior' type characters are able to choose. They would take on role character by interaction with class features. The 10k+ power inventory and 5k+ feat inventory of 4e could be reduced by a factor of 10 in this fashion without sacrificing any real character options. I would much more heavily leverage the use of the 'disease' track for various things. It could be used to represent any sort of 'affliction', curses, wounds, poisons, diseases, etc. Rituals should be rewritten so that they all scale both in cost and effect as you level (some can be entirely non-scaling of course, there are some that just don't need to scale). This was done inconsistently on an ad-hoc basis. Items really were pretty all over the place. I'd just start over and write up really iconic and interesting items and give each one a lot of design room. There would be one sort of fire weapon, not 6 different ones, etc. Bring them back to the real classics too. There are other real significant things I'd change somewhat. I think the combat system is too gimmicky, insufficiently tactical in a genuine way, and clearly can be far too slow in plot terms. All of that can be easily corrected. Clearly most of this cannot happen within the bounds of 4e compatibility and thus would have to represent a new game design. Sadly I think 4e has taken its course. It is a great game, but filling out the little bits and pieces and polishing things in small ways isn't really enough. [/QUOTE]
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