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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anthtriel" data-source="post: 3849042" data-attributes="member: 13764">Most of us will probably agree that iconic spells like "Finger of Death" and "Wail of the Banshee" need to be in the game in one or the other, but opinions are divided how exactly they should work. Given that we don't know how they are handled in 4E, I thought it would be interesting to see what is the most popular way to do it.The different ways to implement them (that I'm aware of) are:1. The traditional way: Make the save and take minor or no damage, fail it and die instantly.Example: Finger of Death - Int against Fortitude Defense: Target opponent dies.-Advantages: It's D&D tradition, it plays very differently from other effects, it is uncomplicated.-Disadvantages: It is an all or nothing effect and thus very swingy (BBEG might drop dead in the first round, half the party might die in the first round), scales poorly (it's not much less deadly in the hand of mooks than in the hand of the BBEG), has no synergy with other effects (whether the enemy has 1 or 200 HP doesn't matter), quite likely to cause frustrating play situations.-Ways of improving it: Do away with the "1 automatically fails" rule, warn DMs, heavily restrict them, especially in the hand of enemy mid-level casters.2. Conversion to damage: Make the save and take some or no damage, fail it and take a significant amount of damage.Example: Finger of Death - Int against Fortitude Defense: Target takes 2D6 + (5 * caster level) negative energy damage, or 2D6 + caster level if you miss.-Advantages: It scales very well, and streamlines the system. One resource (HP) for all threats.-Disadvantages: It plays very similar to Evocation spells. 3. Death dependant on HP: If you have enough HP (and make the save), you survive, otherwise you die.Example: Finger of Death - Int against Fortitude Defense: If the target has less than 2D6 + (6 *caster level) HP, it dies. (Alternative: "is bloodied")-Advantages: Avoids most problems of the traditional method and still plays differently.-Disadvantages: Requires knowledge of enemy's hitpoints, very meta-gamey.4. Ability (Fortitude) Damage: If you have make the save and have enough constitution, you survive, otherwise you die or are weakened.Example: Finger of Death - Int against Fortitude Defense: Target takes 1D6 + caster level Constitution damage. (Alternative: Target takes 1D4 + 0.5 * caster level Constitution damage every round until it makes the save)-Advantages: Plays differently from damage spells and still scales.-Disadvantages: Difficult to balance, because for some classes, Constitution practically scales with levels, for others it doesn't. If the spell scales with level, it ravages high level wizards, if it doesn't, high level barbarians will laugh it off.5. Level-adjusted Ability (Fortitude) Damage: The same as 4, except that not your actual ability score, but your 4E level-adjusted ability bonus (normal ability bonus + 1/2 level) gets drained.Example: Finger of Death - Int against Fortitude Defense: Target takes 1D4 + 0.5 * caster level Constitution mod damage. (Alternative: Target takes 1D2 + 0.25 * caster level Constitution mod damage every round until it makes the save)-Advantages: Plays differently from damage spells and scales very well.-Disadvantages: The most complicated method.</blockquote>

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