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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jefe Bergenstein" data-source="post: 2844003" data-attributes="member: 31506">I played one in a one shot after I'd played an Incarnate... it felt much weaker. Part of the problem is many vestiges abilities are "tied up" with just getting you to do the classes main focus... fight. So you have space wasters that grant you profiiciency with a martial weapon, or armor, or whatever. The class should have had martial weapons and heavy armor as base profieincies, then focus on letting those vestiges grant additional abilities beyond what 1 level of fighter gives for free. Lots of the abilities on 5 round timers shouldnt be. Spending a standard action to try and daze something for one round... meh. I'd say let them be on d4 timers. My other beef was how low level vesitges are (more or less) useless at upper levels. Lots of vestiges grant a flat static bonus of +x to a skill... it should scale over the levels. In particular the vestige who lets you use skills untrained is worthless... how is a total of +2 to a knowledge going to help? A +2 to disable device is equally worthless.As NPC villains they suck as well. Despite sounding cool, you basically have a gimped cleric adversary. The binder had a lot of potential. I'm giving them martial weapons, better armor, and going though and scaling some powers better.</blockquote>