the blending of magic and technology

[thol]

i started this in another forum, but i thought i'd post here as well...

here's the question.

what is the maximum amount of technology that can be inserted into a D&D campaign world without ruining the fantasy flavor?

too many times have i played in a game world of one type, only to have it ruined with the introduction of too many elements from another type of game.

my campaign world is based on an ancient elder elven space vessel getting stranded on the planet. the ship remains floating above a vast desert, and is referred to in legends as a floating castle. it's people settled the lands and cultivated the infant races. their queen then mysteriously vanished, and they slowly became extinct in favor of the other races. now the truth is lost to time, but some artifacts remain, such as robots (golems) and other small items in deep, dark ruins.

i am wondering how much technology may be too much, and how to handle the magic vs. technology issue. is technology just machines imbued with magic? how do they affect each other?

very simple guns and mechanical machines are not strangers to the campaign world, as the gnomish engineers of Gond are diligent in their pursuit of knowledge.

does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[thol]

the way i have it now is that magic is the de facto standard in terms of wonderous effects, although in the main kingdom the PCs live, work, and adventure in, it is slightly less than common, and more so as you get further from civilization.

the ancient technology is barely even known, and the very few who do know of it have no idea of its origins, other than it is from the era of the elder elves. there are perhaps only two or three individuals in the world who can decipher the smallest bit of the ancient runic script, so nothing is really known of that time.

i want the basis of the campaign to rest in fantasy, and introduce only small amounts of "technology" into the campaign.

for example, one of the player characters, an elf, was taken from his homeland (another plane? another dimension? he doesn't know). he awoke with a mysterious tattoo (a barcode) among the seafaring wind elves, who taught him their language and of his new world. this barcode gives him the power of a barbarian-like rage, except he has no real control when entering, and has no idea of his actions upon coming out of it. unknown to him, it is somehow connected with the AI of the Silver Citadel, the ancient space vessel that floats above the Burning Lands.

i imagine items such as laser guns and such will be limited. most tech items would duplicate a spell effect and be subject to dispelling and anti-magic preventions. they would be pseudo-magical in their construction, and treated as such.

dragons could use spell resistance to counter such effects, and magical armor would be effective against less advanced projectile weapons.

also, i am still working out what kind of role psionics should play in all of this as well.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

I had a game where gunpowder weapons were available, but rare. The players seemed to like the notion as opposed to "forbidden by the gods", so I kept it. Currently gunpowder is availalbe but nobody likes using it because a simple fire spell can set off the weapon.

But that's as far as I go. I think fantasy gamers won't object to huge "weird science" machines that have gears. But you're pushing the limit once you introduce gunpowder and steam power. Just make sure such technology is rare and you'll be OK.

 

[Tonguez]

Anyone remember the cartoon Galaxy Rangers?

If I remember correctly (it was a few years back) in one episode the Rangers were called to a Planet which was 'dying'. Anyway the People of the planet worshiped the Living Planet as their god and had a number of 'magical' artifacts which were gifts from the Planet- including staves that shot energy, a flying ship, magical lights and a brooch that allowed the wearer to send a message to a desitant listener.
The natives thought all of these things to be magic and from the living planet, the Rangers beleived them to be technology

Anyway the Rangers were taken to the Temple and found that beneath the god was in fact a gigantic bionetwork - a 'living computer' and that it had developed a major glitch (hence the magic going wonky and the inhabitants thinking it was 'dying')

Repairs were done, the Keeper merged with the Bionetwork and the Planet was restored.

Okay the point is all Magic in this world was linked to Super Weird-Tech and imho would make a good DnD setting

I think that even trains could be used in a DnD setting and still retain the flavour as long as they remain 'wonderous'.

The problems start when personal devices (ie cars, telephones, home-use replicators) become standard, and when technologies effects are explained through science rather than 'just because' and so loose their magic.

 

[Knightcrawler]

There was a Dragon Mag a while back that covered this. Something about Greyhawk 2000. Very Steampunk but actually went through it all. Combination of magic and technology, very cool. If you need and example go read some of the Shadowrun books, very good at combining magic and technology.

 

[s/LaSH]

Here's an example of perception as opposed to reality.

An ancient artifact was unearthed in the desert. Scholars working for decades managed to activate it, and it opened a door onto another world.

But when explorers went through, they found a world ruled by fear. The people of that world were ruled by a callous God, who discovered the presence of the explorers and came to the Door in his flying citadel. He sent his animal-headed minions to cow the populace, and strange flying things rained fire and brimstone upon any who dared raise their hand in anger. The animal-headed men carried staffs that could cast energy blasts powerful enough to shatter stone walls.

The god himself was immortal, and could raise men from the dead by resting them in a box in his citadel. He could point at any who displeased him, and they would die in agony with blood coming out their nose.

Does this sound familiar? It should. It's the concept behind Stargate. The Door was the stargate, working off an interstellar wormhole. The God was Ra, a human body treated with advanced technology and inhabited by a symboiotic goa'uld parasite. The animal-headed soldiers were just high-tech helmets, and their staffs were energy weapons. The flying things were attack aircraft... you get the idea.

In summary, it's all in the presentation.

 

[thol]

i don't want any kind of crazy machinery such as steampunk stuff or crazy magical devices all over the place.

i want to keep it a medium to low magic world, with some "magical technology" thrown in. the most important thing is keeping the feel of the campaign and of the world as "fantasy with a dash of sci-fi" instead of "sci-fi on a fantasy world."

the most important thing is that the players don't think about sci-fi at all. i want it to be an underlying theme that they don't find out about til far, far into the campaign.

 

[Knightcrawler]

Might want to check out some of the Ravenloft stuff. Some of the domains have a higher technology level than most are used to. As in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms.

Take your fantasy world and add steampower. That simple and then think of the effects of that steampower. Ex: trains, powered boats, electricity in someplaces. You could do all of these or only some.

Instead of a coal fired boiler it could house a fire elemental.

 

[thol]

see, i don't want anything resembling steampunk at all. trains and all that ruins the traditional fantasy feel. but thanks for the suggestions

 

[Tonguez]

Play Thief (the computer game) it works like a fantasy setting until you notice the electric street lights and the sparking wires...