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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Serge" data-source="post: 410654" data-attributes="member: 4049">They'd be as usable as some lesser gods and most demigods.  I think, as someone else already pointed out, that this has to do with how one sees the archfiends... as well as one's cosmological perception.  Some of you may have seen my Lords of the Nine which are about as powerful as lower-level Intermediate gods without being gods.  This is precisely the kind of thing I wanted... beings one could fight if they were extremely high-level despite the fact that I don't typically play at such high levels.  Personally, for me it's a cosmological issue.  If a being rules an entire layer (or in the case of Asmodeus, an entire plane), a CR under 50 makes no sense whether or not one considers them gods.  IMO, most of the Lords of the Nine and the Demon Princes should be higher level challenges than the toughest standard monster and should be well above the toughest non-divine epic monster.  They should rank in power with gods, even if they technically are not gods.  If the book allows gamers to increase their power, great.  If not, I will still buy the book, using my own stats (in which the Lords are between 50 and 60 CR) with some modifications that take advantage of the BoVD Feats, magic, and disciple class.</blockquote>