Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 410886" data-attributes="member: 4937">It seems to me that there is a lot of complaining going on about really trivial things.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the arch-fiends were presented as CR 40 foes, then there stats would merely be an abstraction intended to impress people who have yet to realize that the DM can make foes of any CR quite readily.&nbsp;&nbsp; 'Ewww wow, look how tough Orcus is.', is a state of a very limited imagination, because for any given monster A with finite stats you can always propose monster B that is much tougher and it is entirely subjective when tough becomes too tough and someone has started bing cheesy.How many games out there actually need CR 40 villians?&nbsp; And, if they are to be CR 40 villians, surely they need to be created with Epic Feats and the like which require that the reader have the ELH in order to understand what he reads.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think it is better that the arch-fiends are presented as foes that are not so far outside the needs of most campaigns that the majority of campaigns which actually use them are poorly run Monte Haul types.&nbsp;&nbsp; That doesn't do the reputation of the Arch-Fiends any favors either, for those of you who seem to place the reputation of the various demons and devils as kick-butt admirable worshipable beings as highest priorities.It is not entirely unreasonable to suggest that an arch-fiend be no personally tougher than a Solar.&nbsp; Certainly, in thier original conception, Solars were no more common than arch-fiends, and can be seen as thier opposing force.&nbsp; And in any event, for the rare few that feel the need for CR 40, or CR 60, or CR 100 (or whatever) Asmodeous for whatever reason (look how tough my arch-fiends are! my epic level NPC's are bigger than your epic level NPC's!) you can certainly advance them as easily as you advance any other monster.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 410886, member: 4937"] It seems to me that there is a lot of complaining going on about really trivial things. If the arch-fiends were presented as CR 40 foes, then there stats would merely be an abstraction intended to impress people who have yet to realize that the DM can make foes of any CR quite readily. 'Ewww wow, look how tough Orcus is.', is a state of a very limited imagination, because for any given monster A with finite stats you can always propose monster B that is much tougher and it is entirely subjective when tough becomes too tough and someone has started bing cheesy. How many games out there actually need CR 40 villians? And, if they are to be CR 40 villians, surely they need to be created with Epic Feats and the like which require that the reader have the ELH in order to understand what he reads. I think it is better that the arch-fiends are presented as foes that are not so far outside the needs of most campaigns that the majority of campaigns which actually use them are poorly run Monte Haul types. That doesn't do the reputation of the Arch-Fiends any favors either, for those of you who seem to place the reputation of the various demons and devils as kick-butt admirable worshipable beings as highest priorities. It is not entirely unreasonable to suggest that an arch-fiend be no personally tougher than a Solar. Certainly, in thier original conception, Solars were no more common than arch-fiends, and can be seen as thier opposing force. And in any event, for the rare few that feel the need for CR 40, or CR 60, or CR 100 (or whatever) Asmodeous for whatever reason (look how tough my arch-fiends are! my epic level NPC's are bigger than your epic level NPC's!) you can certainly advance them as easily as you advance any other monster. [/QUOTE]

Verification