Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 411729" data-attributes="member: 4937">If I was intent on convincing some people that D&D players where not demon worshippers...Then this thread would not be the place to start.Sheesh.I had no idea that these critters commanded this kind of love and devotion.  This is insane.  It's just a bunch of numbers on a peice of paper???  I'm looking at Graz'zt's picture in the MMII and you know I just can't see it.  And as for those people that keep complaining that old Graz'zt and co. should be immensely more powerful than 'mere mortals', let me remind you that Graz'zt lost to out TWICE to 'mere mortals' in his official history.   First, when he was imprisoned by an unnamed wizard - which cost him dearly in his war with Demogorgon, and secondly when the planar rangers freed the goddess Waukeen from his prisons.   So please, enough already.   He never was particularly potent statwise in any regard except AC.   Mephistopheles has more psionic points, better magic resistance, and better spell abilities, Orcus has better equipment (not to mention Time Stop), and Fraz-Urb'luu has him beat in the Thug department.   If you want Graz'zt to be CR 29 (or 49) in your game world, go to town, but that wouldn't necessarily be good conversion.   Basically I'd be happy with Grazz't as something similar to a 24th level Psychic Warrior with a demonic template and a few extra spell abilities.He's just a D&D monster for crying out loud.And for those of you complaining, the stats given for the arch fiends where never significantly better than an uber-powerful mortal, so why should they be now?   They were always intended to be foes for high level parties, which back in the day meant 15th-18th.   Why is it important to you that they be held in awe?</blockquote>

Verification