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<blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 413169" data-attributes="member: 5171">Let's see...barsoomcore: You just gave me the shuddering creepies by comparing my post to Survivor...Celebrim: That darn &quot;Using this theory, this would have eventually happened&quot; logic!&nbsp; I HATE that logic... If I were gonna mount a strenuous defense, I'd probably base it on the notion that competition will be fiercest where the people are closer in power.&nbsp; The greater the power difference, the longer they are to work together.&nbsp; That lets a succubus work for Graz'zt, but keeps the high-level rivalries going.&nbsp; And I'd never imagined a bunch of succubi working well together for long -- they'd be fighting like cats and, well, cats, to win Big G's favor...But frankly, even that's pretty shaky.&nbsp; As a non-chaotic-evil person, I think I've gone about as far into the mentality as I can without putting my own &quot;what I'd do&quot;'s into it.&nbsp; The flawed model I've got is still basically good enough to support the game I want to run -- and if my players ever say something about demons allying together like that, I'll just grin and ask, &quot;How do you know they haven't?&quot;&nbsp; And then they'll throw dice at me.Serge: When it comes down to it, I think you and I have a fundamental disagreement as to what Chaotic means, and it's a fine disagreement to have with no hard feelings on my end.&nbsp; The inherent limitation of Chaos/Law and Good/Evil in D&amp;D is that it lumps &quot;Works well in hierarchical structure&quot; and &quot;Self-discipline&quot; together under Law.&nbsp; This means that Demons, the very embodiments of Chaos, are supposed to be devoid of self-discipline.&nbsp; I think you're probably right as to what the D&amp;D official rules say.&nbsp; Personally, though, I can't stand villains devoid of self-discipline, because they die so very quickly and stupidly -- so I'm ignoring that aspect of Law/Chaos and declaring it non-alignment-based.&nbsp; And it lets me have the world I want.Thanks all,-Tacky</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takyris, post: 413169, member: 5171"] Let's see... barsoomcore: You just gave me the shuddering creepies by comparing my post to [I]Survivor[/I]... Celebrim: That darn "Using this theory, this would have eventually happened" logic! I HATE that logic... If I were gonna mount a strenuous defense, I'd probably base it on the notion that competition will be fiercest where the people are closer in power. The greater the power difference, the longer they are to work together. That lets a succubus work for Graz'zt, but keeps the high-level rivalries going. And I'd never imagined a bunch of succubi working well together for long -- they'd be fighting like cats and, well, cats, to win Big G's favor... But frankly, even that's pretty shaky. As a non-chaotic-evil person, I think I've gone about as far into the mentality as I can without putting my own "what I'd do"'s into it. The flawed model I've got is still basically good enough to support the game I want to run -- and if my players ever say something about demons allying together like that, I'll just grin and ask, "How do you know they haven't?" And then they'll throw dice at me. Serge: When it comes down to it, I think you and I have a fundamental disagreement as to what Chaotic means, and it's a fine disagreement to have with no hard feelings on my end. The inherent limitation of Chaos/Law and Good/Evil in D&D is that it lumps "Works well in hierarchical structure" and "Self-discipline" together under Law. This means that Demons, the very embodiments of Chaos, are supposed to be devoid of self-discipline. I think you're probably right as to what the D&D official rules say. Personally, though, I can't stand villains devoid of self-discipline, because they die so very quickly and stupidly -- so I'm ignoring that aspect of Law/Chaos and declaring it non-alignment-based. And it lets me have the world I want. Thanks all, -Tacky [/QUOTE]

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