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<blockquote data-quote="FreeXenon" data-source="post: 3479528" data-attributes="member: 6228">I like your base idea - ALOT.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I would recommend possibly giving them a Warrior BAB but reduce their HD to d8. I really like the Class Skills and skill points.Instead of the D4 sneak attack give them the standard d6 sneak attack at a reduced rate. We can reduce the need to add custom abilities. If we make a Brawler equal to both a Monk and a Fighter through out then the class would be too powerful. if they lag behind both but have elements of each it should not get too out of hand.&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid&nbsp; &nbsp; :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /> I have reworked it a little bit below. It is not perfect especially with empty levels, but allows the Brawler to be more versatile and work toward many different hand-to-hand archetypes instead of being shoehorned into one type. I have only posted below what I have changed. I hope I have not wrecked your vision of the Brawler.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!&nbsp; &nbsp; :eek:"&nbsp; data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> There is no Uber-20th Level ability - A Brawler-Apotheosis, if you will, which may be something you might want to look into. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I hope what I propose helps and doesn't step on your toes too much.[code][SIZE=4][U][B]The Brawler (Base Class)[/B][/U][/SIZE][U][B]GAME RULE INFORMATION[/B][/U]Brawlers have the following game statistics.[B]Hit Die: [/B]d81st&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Improved Unarmed Strike, WF&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d62nd&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Brawler Technique (any)3rd&nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak Attack (1d6), Evasion4th&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Wpn Spec&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5th&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Brawler Technique (Offense)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d86th&nbsp; &nbsp; +6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Brawler Technique (Defense)7th&nbsp; &nbsp; +7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak Attack (2d6) 8th&nbsp; &nbsp; +8/+3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Imp Wpn Focus&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 9th&nbsp; &nbsp; +9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d10 10th&nbsp; &nbsp; +10/+5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Brawler Technique (Any)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 11th&nbsp; &nbsp; +11/+6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Imp Evasion, Sneak Attack (3d6)12th&nbsp; &nbsp; +12/+7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 13th&nbsp; &nbsp; +13/+8/+3&nbsp; &nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Greater Weapons Spcl&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2d614th&nbsp; &nbsp; +14/+9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sneak Attack (4d6), Brawler Technique (Offense)15th&nbsp; &nbsp; +15/+10/+5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Technique (Offense)16th&nbsp; &nbsp; +16/+11/+6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; +10&nbsp; &nbsp; +10&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17th&nbsp; &nbsp; +17/+12/+7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; +10&nbsp; &nbsp; +10&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2d618th&nbsp; &nbsp; +18/+13/+8/+3&nbsp; &nbsp; +11&nbsp; &nbsp; +11&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp;&nbsp; Sneak Attack (5d6)19th&nbsp; &nbsp; +19/+14/+9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; +11&nbsp; &nbsp; +11&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp;&nbsp; Wpn Suprm, Brawler Technique (Any)20th&nbsp; &nbsp; +20/+15/+10/+5&nbsp; &nbsp; +12&nbsp; &nbsp; +12&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp;&nbsp; Brawler Apotheosis[B]CLASS FEATURES[/B][B]Brawler Technique: [/B]Choose a feat or ability from the following: a bunch of&nbsp; monk related abilities and feats all of which will be dependent on light or no armor :imp trip, imp grapple, Ki Strike (Magic), Improved Feint, Uncanny Dodge, and so on but with requirements), Cheeta Palm (Extra attack at highest base with all attacks at a -2) , Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Wisdom Bonus to AC, Increased Speed (10'), Imp Intiative etc, Armor Training (medium - if they are proficient&nbsp; in wearing medium armor they may wear medium armor and have their feats and stuff function). Set requisites for monk based abilities equal to a Brawler of the same level (ie Ki Strike (Magic)&nbsp; - Brawler Level 4;). These are just a bunch of things from the top of my head.You could alternatively organize these into trees like the Monk or Ranger - possibly one for Defense and one for Offense, or a path that selects all of them. The problem with that is that whatever path or tree you define will not make everyone happy. It might be safer to just give them a pool of abilities to select from that are appropriate for the class and then let the player select from that to define the archetype they want to play.&nbsp; &nbsp; [B]Offensive[/B]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [I]Brutal Strike (Ex): [/I]At 1st level, a Brawler gains the ability to make an attack with all of his force behind it. This ability can only be used on a full attack action and the Brawler may&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; add&nbsp; &nbsp; Str + ½ to his damage. This ability can only be used with an unarmed attack and requires both hands to be empty. The Brawler takes a -2 to attack when using this ability.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; At 5th level the penalty becomes -1 and at 9th level it disappears. At 15th level the Brawler gains a +1 to this attack and at 20th level it becomes a +2.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Smash you good: At 16th level Brawlers gain Crushing Strike as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.&nbsp; &nbsp; [B]Defensive: [/B]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [I]Never Say Die:[/I] At 7th level Brawlers gain Diehard as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.&nbsp; &nbsp; [B]Esoteric: [/B] perhaps add a third level of abilities which define supernatural abilities &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; such as Ki Strike and Increased Movement (10'), Wisdom to AC, and so on. This&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; might take care of your dead levels. They might only be able to take these on 'Any' &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; levels.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [I]Refuse to Fall (Ex):[/I] At 17th level a Brawler can attempt to remain standing no matter how grievous his wounds are. Each round that he is past -10 hit points, the Brawler must&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; make a fortitude save (DC 20) to remain alive. Each round after the first save, the DC increases by 2. During this time, the Brawler is limited to a single move action.[/code]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FreeXenon, post: 3479528, member: 6228"] I like your base idea - ALOT. ;) I would recommend possibly giving them a Warrior BAB but reduce their HD to d8. I really like the Class Skills and skill points. Instead of the D4 sneak attack give them the standard d6 sneak attack at a reduced rate. We can reduce the need to add custom abilities. If we make a Brawler equal to both a Monk and a Fighter through out then the class would be too powerful. if they lag behind both but have elements of each it should not get too out of hand. :uhoh: I have reworked it a little bit below. It is not perfect especially with empty levels, but allows the Brawler to be more versatile and work toward many different hand-to-hand archetypes instead of being shoehorned into one type. I have only posted below what I have changed. I hope I have not wrecked your vision of the Brawler. :eek: There is no Uber-20th Level ability - A Brawler-Apotheosis, if you will, which may be something you might want to look into. :) I hope what I propose helps and doesn't step on your toes too much. [code][SIZE=4][U][B]The Brawler (Base Class)[/B][/U][/SIZE] [U][B]GAME RULE INFORMATION[/B][/U] Brawlers have the following game statistics. [B]Hit Die: [/B]d8 1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Improved Unarmed Strike, WF d6 2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Brawler Technique (any) 3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Sneak Attack (1d6), Evasion 4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Wpn Spec 5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Brawler Technique (Offense) d8 6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Brawler Technique (Defense) 7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Sneak Attack (2d6) 8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Imp Wpn Focus 9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 d10 10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Brawler Technique (Any) 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Imp Evasion, Sneak Attack (3d6) 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Greater Weapons Spcl 2d6 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Sneak Attack (4d6), Brawler Technique (Offense) 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Technique (Offense) 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 2d6 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Sneak Attack (5d6) 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Wpn Suprm, Brawler Technique (Any) 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Brawler Apotheosis [B]CLASS FEATURES[/B] [B]Brawler Technique: [/B]Choose a feat or ability from the following: a bunch of monk related abilities and feats all of which will be dependent on light or no armor :imp trip, imp grapple, Ki Strike (Magic), Improved Feint, Uncanny Dodge, and so on but with requirements), Cheeta Palm (Extra attack at highest base with all attacks at a -2) , Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Wisdom Bonus to AC, Increased Speed (10'), Imp Intiative etc, Armor Training (medium - if they are proficient in wearing medium armor they may wear medium armor and have their feats and stuff function). Set requisites for monk based abilities equal to a Brawler of the same level (ie Ki Strike (Magic) - Brawler Level 4;). These are just a bunch of things from the top of my head. You could alternatively organize these into trees like the Monk or Ranger - possibly one for Defense and one for Offense, or a path that selects all of them. The problem with that is that whatever path or tree you define will not make everyone happy. It might be safer to just give them a pool of abilities to select from that are appropriate for the class and then let the player select from that to define the archetype they want to play. [B]Offensive[/B] [I]Brutal Strike (Ex): [/I]At 1st level, a Brawler gains the ability to make an attack with all of his force behind it. This ability can only be used on a full attack action and the Brawler may add Str + ½ to his damage. This ability can only be used with an unarmed attack and requires both hands to be empty. The Brawler takes a -2 to attack when using this ability. At 5th level the penalty becomes -1 and at 9th level it disappears. At 15th level the Brawler gains a +1 to this attack and at 20th level it becomes a +2. Smash you good: At 16th level Brawlers gain Crushing Strike as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. [B]Defensive: [/B] [I]Never Say Die:[/I] At 7th level Brawlers gain Diehard as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. [B]Esoteric: [/B] perhaps add a third level of abilities which define supernatural abilities such as Ki Strike and Increased Movement (10'), Wisdom to AC, and so on. This might take care of your dead levels. They might only be able to take these on 'Any' levels. [I]Refuse to Fall (Ex):[/I] At 17th level a Brawler can attempt to remain standing no matter how grievous his wounds are. Each round that he is past -10 hit points, the Brawler must make a fortitude save (DC 20) to remain alive. Each round after the first save, the DC increases by 2. During this time, the Brawler is limited to a single move action.[/code] [/QUOTE]

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