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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 5443078" data-attributes="member: 20323">Yeah, I've heard this argument a few times. I feel like there were great answers in this thread, so I only have one thing to add...Well, it's a simplistic question so here's simplistic answer: Minions. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />If the PCs don't have support/allies they might find themselves facing an army, say upwards of a thousand minions, on their lonesome. No matter how high the PCs' defenses are, a minion still hits on a '20'. So, you could expect about one hit per every 20 minions, who would be a mix of melee and artillery. Obviously I'm leaving out the PCs' powers/rituals as well as the possibility of minions aiding each other, focused fire on the leader, use of trebuchets/ballistae, etc.And let's say that each PC is attacked by 20 minions each turn (say 6 melee, 14 artillery), meaning each PC is hit once per turn on average. If the minions are 1st level, their damage is probably around 6.Even if you assume the PCs each can take out 10 minions per turn, that means your party of five PCs is taking out 50 minions per turn.In other words, they're taking about 6 damage each for roughly 20 rounds until they defeat the army... or 120 hp each.Considering this is comparable to the hp of a 20th level cleric, I'd say an army of low-level minions constitutes a legitimate threat to high-level PCs.Rock on <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> We're starting a Mystara campaign in 4e soon. It's been a long time baby.</blockquote>

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