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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6970512" data-attributes="member: 12731">To me, the most straight-forward solution would be to do way with "proficiency" as a binary toggle and instead hand out skill proficiency points individually.That is, in the simplest case of a two-skill dimwit, instead of once and for all choosing "proficiency" in Athletics and Brawling, the player would get 4 proficiency points at first level, and then two more each time the regular proficiency bonus would increase (at levels 5, 9, 13, 17).Of course, assuming we add (back) more skills (including the split of stealth into hide and move silently) this could be made more granular. With more skills you would want to hand out more proficiency points. You would also probably want to price different skills differently (Perception has way more in-game benefits than Agriculture or Calligraphy and so should probably cost more).So let's introduce three categories of skills: Background, Common, Heroic:Background skills (2 SP) have no or small impact on the game, and mainly serve to give the character a background history and to provide characterization and color. Examples: pottery, cobblery, play a music instrument, local history. Background skills cost 2 SP per proficiency point.Common skills (3 SP) include everyday common activities anybody would do and does do. These skills do help the adventurer, but only insofar that they would help anyone. Examples: Swim, Hide, sleight of hand, History, Nature, Animal Handling. Common skills cost 3 SP per proficiency point.Heroic skills (4 SP) are the skills that heroes (and villains) use to make a difference. The skills common people theoretically could use, but usually don't, since they require ambition, courage, initiative or ruthlessness. Also includes uncommon skills that require special training. Examples: arcana, perception, intimidate, poison useThe cost should be based mostly on utility. A skill like Herbalism probably only merits a 2 SP cost in a game like D&D where herbs doesn't matter much for purposes of healing. In another game where magical healing is much more scarce, and indeed could be herb-based (Middle Earth Role Play anyone?) it would cost 4 SP. Now, the first step would to finalize a list of skills and their SP costs.I can't do that here and now, but I can still give you a general idea of what I meant by "be made more granular" above. If we have enough skills that cost enough skill points, we need to hand out so many of them that we can hand out some each level, instead of just at specific levels.Example: A basic Fighter gets four skills (including the two everyone gets from their background).If we (for the sake of this example) assume skills cost 3 SP on average (per proficiency point), then we should hand out 3x4=12 skill points since this enables the character to place four +1's on his character sheet.So at 1st level that's 24 SPs. At fifth level it's another 12 SP etc. We end up with 6x12=72 SP at level 17.So if we desire to hand out an equal helping of skill points at each level, that would be 4 skill points per level.But wait! We've split skills and encourage many more skills. Obviously this must be calibrated and playtested, but this should serve to illustrate the point.Let's quadruple the helping at level 1, to allow characters to be more realistically grounded in Background and Common skills, and generally increase it to 6 skill points per level instead.So our level 1 fighter would have 24 SPs to spend. It would only be enough for four Common skills at +2 each, but remember, this game hands out more skill points at every level. And after all, the lowest levels are considered apprentice levels. At fourth level, for instance, the fighter would have enough skill points (42) for the following:Two Background skills at +1 each (4 SP)Two Background skills at +2 each (8 SP)Two Common skills at +1 each (6 SP)Two Common skills at +2 each (12 SP)One Heroic skill at +1 (4 SP)One Heroic skill at +2 (8 SP)That's ten skills total.A rule that probably would work well is to say that you make "untrained" skill checks at disadvantage. You remain untrained in any skill where you have no proficiency points, where your skill bonus is +0.You would still normally be limited to a maximum of +2 on levels 1-4, +3 on levels 5-8 etc.Then you could say that you need to pay double whenever you want to exceed this normal maximum, but that this doesn't apply to rogues etc who have double the normal maximum. A level 8 rogue, for instance, could purchase a +6 in Stealth without that costing more than usual. All this to represent Expertise, I mean. It might sound like a lot of work, but really, all you need to do is import the skill list from your favorite gritty fantasy game, assign each skill to one of the six abilities and the players will do the rest <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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