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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 4641468" data-attributes="member: 20239">If what you're saying is that the rulebooks don't state "at X level, the DM should have Y number of followers join the PC's cause" then, again, you are technically correct.  The rulebooks don't tell the DM, you have to play the game exactly this way, with this character arc and these character goals at these specific levels. They allow for a lot more creativity and DM customization than that. What they do is lay out several possibilities, one of which is exactly the kind of goal and perspective shift that you're describing and give the DM advice and tools on how to make that happen. As I pointed out above, the DMG devotes several chapters to non-combat challenges, non-monetary rewards and campaign/world building all of which are chock-ful of suggestions and ideas for the DM to incorporate those things into their campaign in different ways as the PCs advance in tier, including leadership of groups, ownership of land and even political influence. The PHB also has some good advice in the parts dedicated to Paragon and Epic tier advancement.  As I noted in my last post, even a DM completely new to gaming couldn't read through the DMG and not come away with a clear understanding that higher levels can be about more than just increasingly powerful combat options and more hit points if they want them to be.I'm not sure where "homebrew" comes into it.  As I said above, I'm playing a game that's completely RAW except for a few tweaks to Action Points and some player-researched Rituals.  The things I'm doing with skill challenges and non-monetary rewards are exactly the kinds of things suggested and encouraged by the DMG.  Most of my skill challenges are taken straight from the DMG with changes in subject matter and flavor to match the situation at hand. I find it very strange that someone would suggest the things I'm doing in my campaign aren't "supported or intended" when 99% of what I'm doing is taken directly from suggestions and mechanics present in one of the three core books. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />I think I'm clear on what you are saying and the delineation you're making between more powerful opponents in more unusual environments and an actual change in the PC's goals and place in the world. My reply is still that, in my experience, the game supports and encourages exactly that kind of change in gameplay as the PCs advance through the tiers.  In fact, I expect the change to be even more profound as the PCs get into Epic Tier and start getting into things like the Demigod epic destiny.  How could anyone expect more of a change in character goals and perspective than going from 1) A Cleric of a religion, trying to advance the goals of his faith in heroic tier; to 2) The earthly leader of that religion in paragon tier; to 3) founding a religion of your own with you as the deity in Epic tier? In fact, that's exactly the kind of campaign we used to play using the BECMI rules back in the 80s, with Epic tier (as far as I can see) being almost identical to the process of becoming an Immortal in BECMI.I think the good news is that you'll be able to have both if you want! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />The basic mechanics of combat don't change drastically as the PCs advance through the tiers (although I'm finding that running higher level opponents results in combats that are a lot more fun for me as the DM because I've got a lot of cool options to pick from). But the outside-of-combat aspects can change dramatically if you want them to and the rules give the DM lots of support to make that happen.  I really think if you are planning on running a game and you're worried about this, a good look at the DMG chapters 5-8 (plus, of course, being familiar with chapter 10: DM's Toolbox) will do a lot to assuage your fears.  As I noted before, as a DM with so many years of experience I'm positive you won't have any problems incorporating the advice from the DMG into your game and using the tools it provides to run the game exactly as you are describing.</blockquote>

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