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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7609286" data-attributes="member: 996">Want to play Orpheus?&nbsp; Have a 3.0 Commoner with a kazoo.(You've got a funny hat, too, y'might just pull it off.)&nbsp; I think it's fair to say the system does that - both have very significant return on CHA, a Bard would conventionally be CHA-primary, a Paladin at worst, CHA secondary.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;To be fair, they are both explicitly optional, and not every table may opt in.Ironically, turning feats on could hurt this concept, for the fighter - Yeah, there's an ideal feat, inspiring leader - that all 3 hypothetical characters can take at 4th, but there's a number of other tempting feats for the fighter, who needs his bonus ASIs to shore up his CHA without sacrficing his basic fighter effectiveness.&nbsp;That's just sad.&nbsp;Sure, but they'd each need their own spot on the poll, since they can't be combined.And, the PDK, is the obvious candidate, clearly designed for the concept based on its fluff, yet it gets zero mechanical leverage for CHA, if anything, it's Persuasion expertise let's it make up for skimping on CHA. (Thats not actually a bad design, because CHA is a poor investment for any fighter.)&nbsp;Any CHA caster who can cheese up melee adequacy would be a good candidate, mechanically.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7609286, member: 996"] Want to play Orpheus? Have a 3.0 Commoner with a kazoo. (You've got a funny hat, too, y'might just pull it off.) I think it's fair to say the system does that - both have very significant return on CHA, a Bard would conventionally be CHA-primary, a Paladin at worst, CHA secondary. To be fair, they are both explicitly optional, and not every table may opt in. Ironically, turning feats on could hurt this concept, for the fighter - Yeah, there's an ideal feat, inspiring leader - that all 3 hypothetical characters can take at 4th, but there's a number of other tempting feats for the fighter, who needs his bonus ASIs to shore up his CHA without sacrficing his basic fighter effectiveness. That's just sad. Sure, but they'd each need their own spot on the poll, since they can't be combined. And, the PDK, is the obvious candidate, clearly designed for the concept based on its fluff, yet it gets zero mechanical leverage for CHA, if anything, it's Persuasion expertise let's it make up for skimping on CHA. (Thats not actually a bad design, because CHA is a poor investment for any fighter.) Any CHA caster who can cheese up melee adequacy would be a good candidate, mechanically. [/QUOTE]

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