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<blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1556527" data-attributes="member: 2167">I too am not sure of the balance.&nbsp; The class overall, comes out weak in my opinion. Some comparisons…[code]&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CITIZEN&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FIGHTER&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SWASH*&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; RANGER&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; PALADIN&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BARBHD&nbsp; &nbsp; d8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d12BAB&nbsp; &nbsp; Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; GoodSaves&nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 GoodSP's&nbsp; &nbsp; 4+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4+Skills&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 9Weap.s&nbsp; &nbsp; All S, M&nbsp; &nbsp; All S, M&nbsp; &nbsp; All S, M&nbsp; &nbsp; All S, M&nbsp; &nbsp; All S, M&nbsp; &nbsp; All S, MArmor&nbsp; &nbsp; L, M+S&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; All+Tower&nbsp; &nbsp; L&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L+S&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; All+S&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L, M+SAbility&nbsp; &nbsp; 6 Feats&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 11 Feats&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17+Spells&nbsp; &nbsp; 18+Spells&nbsp; &nbsp; 24* [u]Complete Warrior[/u]: SWASH = Swashbuckler[/code]From this we can see that of all the martial classes, the Ranger is the only other with 2 Good saves, which carry some weight in class balance. It is also the only other truly Skill oriented martial class with 19 class skills, balancing it with the Citizen. However, the Ranger has a FAR better Skill to Skill Point ratio and has 11 Class Abilities more, plus spellcasting.I think to strengthen the class to more match the Core classes, I would change the following (with a few agreements on other’s comments).* Change to Light armor and shields, as medium armor doesn’t fit the description or purpose of the class very well.* Since class abilities for the class are VERY low, even though they are true feats not set abilities, this is very limiting and where the true weakness comes in.&nbsp; Especially since the Fighter class is one of the weakest classes balance wise to begin with. However, since the class is more emphasized on its Skills than on Class Abilities, I would increase Skill Points to 8+ to improve the class skill to skill point ratio. This will make them more skill intensive and compensate for the lack of class abilities.* I would re-stagger the 6 feats to equal them out more: 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 OR better yet make the acquisition a little more uniform and make it 7 feats at: 1, 4, 7, 11, 14, 17, and 20.I think this would be a closer balance to the core classes. It doesn’t overshadow the Fighter (only 7 versus 11 feats), and its skill selection defines where it resides purpose-wise, which doesn’t step on the toes of any other class.JMHO.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Khaalis, post: 1556527, member: 2167"] I too am not sure of the balance. The class overall, comes out weak in my opinion. Some comparisons… [code] CITIZEN FIGHTER SWASH* RANGER PALADIN BARB HD d8 d10 d10 d8 d10 d12 BAB Good Good Good Good Good Good Saves 2 Good 1 Good 1 Good 2 Good 1 Good 1 Good SP's 4+ 2+ 4+ 6+ 2+ 4+ Skills 21 7 12 19 10 9 Weap.s All S, M All S, M All S, M All S, M All S, M All S, M Armor L, M+S All+Tower L L+S All+S L, M+S Ability 6 Feats 11 Feats 16 17+Spells 18+Spells 24 * [u]Complete Warrior[/u]: SWASH = Swashbuckler [/code] From this we can see that of all the martial classes, the Ranger is the only other with 2 Good saves, which carry some weight in class balance. It is also the only other truly Skill oriented martial class with 19 class skills, balancing it with the Citizen. However, the Ranger has a FAR better Skill to Skill Point ratio and has 11 Class Abilities more, plus spellcasting. I think to strengthen the class to more match the Core classes, I would change the following (with a few agreements on other’s comments). * Change to Light armor and shields, as medium armor doesn’t fit the description or purpose of the class very well. * Since class abilities for the class are VERY low, even though they are true feats not set abilities, this is very limiting and where the true weakness comes in. Especially since the Fighter class is one of the weakest classes balance wise to begin with. However, since the class is more emphasized on its Skills than on Class Abilities, I would increase Skill Points to 8+ to improve the class skill to skill point ratio. This will make them more skill intensive and compensate for the lack of class abilities. * I would re-stagger the 6 feats to equal them out more: 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 OR better yet make the acquisition a little more uniform and make it 7 feats at: 1, 4, 7, 11, 14, 17, and 20. I think this would be a closer balance to the core classes. It doesn’t overshadow the Fighter (only 7 versus 11 feats), and its skill selection defines where it resides purpose-wise, which doesn’t step on the toes of any other class. JMHO. [/QUOTE]

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