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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kaiyanwang" data-source="post: 5398899" data-attributes="member: 91656">Schmoe,remember that every bonus to the attacks goes to CMB as well. Bards, Cavaliers, buffs, rage, weapon trainings, smart uses of flanks and tactics raises dramatically the change to deliver the maneuver.Moreover, on the "second feat needed": you need just Improved Trip to trip. Greater trip gives not only an AOO to you, but to every ally nearby. Used properly is devastating.Are you only considering feats in your evaluation? Every melee gained class features. Fighter to-hit can be disturbing, and high level critical feats are very strong. And this is core ony. With the APG, we can have a fighter able to auto-crit or full attack as a standard action (vital for tactics, since you can move before or prepare an action). Well chosen rage powers or rogue talents can be devastating. Paladins now are great. I can see that HP raised more for arcane casters (remember, divine didn't get the HD dice buff) in PF, and they got nice class features, but a lot of spell has been nerfed. Caster main thing are spells, so, IMHO, one should judge the "nerfd or not" thing from that. A lot of "I win" spells.. well, are not longer so uber.Now, if you ask me, they could have done more (say, shift the casting time of some spell to 1 full round, and nerf more concentration at high levels) but the difference between classes has been narrowed without destroying how the game plays and feels.Of course, if someone consider it not enough, it's a very legitimate opinion depending from gamestyle... but be sure to evaluate every aspect before drawing such conclusion <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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