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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rhialto" data-source="post: 1722752" data-attributes="member: 630">Umm, no I'm not.  Even in polytheistic religions there were "gods" that pretty much amounted to the boogeyman--"gods" that maybe you set out a loaf of bread for on dark nights, "gods" that the other gods were seeing as holding in check.   Prior to the Hyskos, maybe, but after that, Set was little more than a devil.  His name was erased, his statues were destroyed.  After that--no priests of Set.  No prayers to Set.  Or to give another example--Anupis the Serpent.  By D&D standards, Anupis qualifies as a god.  But it is a negative god--a god that is not worshiped, but for whom the other gods are worshiped for defeating.  The argument I'm making is that Erythnul's place, and philosophy--he's Chaotic Evil, which is essentially like having a large sign placed on your head that says 'does not work well with others'.And this goes fine until they kill the wealthy merchant, the mayor's young daughter, or the beloved old philanthropist. No, it's hubris if they start saying 'Why, I'm better at mass murder than Erythnul!'  Prior to that they are being good worshipers, killing in his name.  And please tell me--what keeps your Chaotic Evil priest advocating murder but not committing murder?  I'd like to know.Yes, but most people don't want to get murdered themselves, and most authorities are going to want the people under them to feel safe, because that's how they stay the authorities, so letting the Holy Temple of Cruel Slaughter operate legally is probably not going to go over very well.People may use those rationalizations to "accept" the underground chapters of the cult, the same way some people "accept" drug dealers and serial killers.  But that doesn't mean they'll like it...But in the Greek model, we have Athena, Ares, Zeus, and Apollo all with direct power over battles.  In the Egyptian, multiple dieties claim to be creators of the world, with battles and intrigues between the priesthoods.  Among the Hindus, we see multiple gods of everything, including sun and battle.  Some people pray to all of them, but many more pray to a few of them, or even one of them.  The cult of Hercules would disagree with you there--they lived their ascetic lives in a direct imitation of his.  (And would go on to inspire the philosophical school of Cynicism.)  And for many polytheists, an act of worship meant doing as the gods do--that's the origin of the Dionysian rites you mentioned earlier.Now, let's just take a look at Erythnul's church, shall we?  Mostly Chaotic Evil.  Hmmm--well, the Evil would be the entire 'murder is good' angle, but what does that 'Chaotic' mean.  Strongly individualistic--unlikely to conform to society's rules--contemptuous of organization and regimentation...  I'd say we're looking at an antisocial ascetic group here, with little in the way of formal discipline... Basically, a mix of yogis and serial killers... Heh... I see them now...Wandering the land, following by the holy precepts of Erythnul (forever may He kill), seeking to bring as many as possible into His Bloody Hand, until they are at last brought to it themselves, living lives dedicated to the glories of murder.  They frown on possessions, and keep only what they can carry, and while they are not prohibited from enjoying the pleasures of the flesh, they are contemptuous of them, for has not Erythnul said that the purpose of flesh is to kill, or be killing. Oh, your priest of Erythnul knows he can not be killing all the time--that he must sleep, and eat on occasion--but it is a fact he seeks to suppress, a fact he loathes, and tries regularly to prove his superiority to.  Yea, their tales resound with such heroic figures as Black Chul, whom never did congress with a woman without slaying her afterwards, Carn the Ragged, whom ate either filth or that which he had killed with his own hands and nothing else, and Kyl Burntloaves who would not rest for the day until he had killed an old man, a young man, a child, and a mother.  Meeting under gallows and in cemeteries, they speak of their deeds, and draw their morning stars, each seeking to kill his fellows.  To begin their training, many acolytes go under the tutelage of an older priest, who teaches them the ways.  If they prove weak, they are killed--if they prove strong, they kill their masters.Some speak of more settled priests in lands of darkness, whom have sacrifices taken to them--who build churches, and council monarchs.  "But fie on them!" shouts the dedicated priest of Erythnul.  "This is the life that Erythnul has chosen for me--my hand against all others, and all others hand against mine!"  And with weapon raised high, he continues on the bloody path of Erythnul.Some would argue that doing so would be the greatest act of faith that the priest could show.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> But being as much like Erythnul as he can is going to make him a dysfunctional member of society, unless said society is pretty dysfunctional itself.  Now, seeing that Erythnul and his priest are both antisocial, and figuring that in the battle between god and society, god will when, society is going to take a fairly dim view of the priests of Erythnul, and the priests of Erythnul will take a likewise dim view of society.Sure he does.  He helps you withstand it.Right.  That whole 'war' aspect of their powers--no help whatsoever.A god of death can be no help in--preventing death.The thing is Erythnul is irked at everyone.  You don't make him unirked.  You pray to him for protection, he sends a horde of rampaging gnolls to your village.  You pray to every other god in your pantheon to make sure Erythnul doesn't notice you, and that if he does, they'll protect you.  Because the other gods do have some power for or against violence and with their help, you might get out of it alive.Except that one of Pelor's specialities is... strength.  Being strong against the attacks of evil.   The problem I have is that your analogy is false--even in polytheism there is the belief that Good spirits protect you from Evil ones.  Quite prominently, actually.  But the thing is, no matter who you pray to you're going to die someday, so the idea takes root that Good spirits have limitations--that even they can't protect you from everything.  And so, if things are bad, you give the bad spirits an offering to placate them, and then go back to not mentioning them.Now, I'd say, looking at the other gods, that Erythnul is not the god of Violence in General--he's the god of a particular sort of violence.  People who think that sort of violence is what they need seek him out--others don't.  His violence does not trump anyone else's violence, and neither does theirs, so you are basically free to worship or ignore him as you see fit.  Good societies, preferring war gods who don't demand that you slaughter all your prisoners to them, generally ignore him.  Erythnul may not like that, and treat them badly as a result, but he treats everyone badly, so it's really not a big deal.  Your Neutral general may give a little offering like you said, but even he stops short of letting the priests settle down, because while you can kid yourself that you can cut deals with Erythnul, the priests are there, and you find yourself dealing with guys that kill your shopkeepers, and set fire to the granaries.  At best you set up a little shrine for them to pray at as they're travelling, and maybe leave a little food there for them--and even then you keep a tight eye on that shrine, and make sure that people who visit it don't stay in the neighborhood too long.  Because that's the thing about Erythnul's followers--they don't take to rules very well.  Just killing.</blockquote>

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