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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rhialto" data-source="post: 1727514" data-attributes="member: 630">Or Loki, and yet, in D&D there he is, a god.  In fact, D&D is full of divine beings that wouldn't normally be gods, and yet there they are...I'd say this comes out of the need for adversaries for the good guys. But without an element of randomness, it isn't slaughter.  (Which, given Erythnul's alignment, I'm taking to mean 'to kill in great numbers, indiscriminately'.) Sure your priest of Erythnul can spend his time killing drunks, poor people, and the castoffs of society, but eventually, Erythnul's going to get peeved because his priest is showing more concern about his safety then Erythnul's glory. Only without proper context.  Saying you seek to imitate the holy example of your god is being a good worshiper.  Classically, hubris comes when a man tries to deny or supplant the gods.  If the high priest of Erythnul starts having his followers kill in his name instead of Erythnul--hubris.  But Erythnul expects his priests to follow his example.But my problem with this is it destroys any individuality Erythnul's priesthood might have.  They are now simply another evil priesthood, like every other priesthood.  At this point the difference between Erythnul and Nerull becomes a simple matter of "Nerull's temple has more zombies".  Erythnul's priest should, on the whole, be a reflection of Erythnul just as Pelor's priest is a reflectio of Pelor.  That's not to say they won't be individualistic, but we must assume that they all have some reason Furthermore, while I don't think all of Erythnul's worshippers are going to act like that, I'm talking about his priests.  They are supposed to be just a tad   Actually, no, it was largely a regional matter, but I have yet to find a single Greek reference delineating these deities different responsibilities.Also, the Spartans would be interested in knowing Apollo had no power over bloodshed and violence.  All that money to the Delphic Oracle--wasted... ...Or some wizards might pray to Boccob on all spells as 'the lord of All Magic.'  And some might feel that Wee Jas or Vecna trump him.  Well, thank you.  I thought it was a nice bit of work myself.But once again, the priests of Erythnul become a Generic Evil Priesthood this way.  To my mind, each of the gods should have a unique priesthood.  Hextor's the one for evil theocracies and inquisitions, Vecna's got the scheming politicos who are trying to build up a power base, Nerull's priesthood spans from the creepy guys in black robes with the onyx temple at the edge of town to the crazy family living in the woods with an army of zombies. Because he's a priest.  Not a Chaotic Evil fighter who prays to Erythnul for guidance now and then.  And my problem with your little scenario is not only a villain who is too smart facing opponents who are too stupid, but that this scheme could be given to a priest of Nerull and play out the same way.  (Also, I'd say this is Neutral Evil myself.)  Will a Chaotic Evil priest of Erythnul wish to encourage as many killings as possible?  Naturally, but he'll also want to do as many as possible himself, because that way he's guaranteeing it'll get done.  Because as a Chaotic, he trusts himself above others, the individual over the group.  That's not to say he's necessarily going to be obvious about it--though unless he hiding his alignment, he's going to show up horribly clear on a detect evil spell--but it does hint at a certain philosophy. ...Okay, I'm hoping your sticking with D&D here, because I'm this close to a philosophical speech.And shouldn't a priest of slaughter be an epitome of slaughter?The average worshiper, I grant you--but we're talking about the priests.  These should be people with a little something--something that makes them seek to follow the ways of Erythnul.  That's why they're clerics, and not fighters and rogues.  They've got that something extra that makes them see Erythnul as more than the god you call out to as you rush out to face the steel legions of your foes--they see him as a way of life.Because otherwise you just reduce gods and clerics to what amounts to divine bureucrats, fiddling with the scales so that everything is even.But that doesn't mean everyone is going to bow down to the temple of Erythnul.  I'm not saying he won't show up in vows, and that your neutral townspeople might just leave a goat out in the shrine out in the woods when things get bad.  But that still is a way to go from letting his priests run a temple in the middle (or even the outskirts) of town.  To my mind, the worship of Erythnul is something that people would try to marginilize or forget.  He's a guy you generally hope ignores you, and when he isn't ignoring you, you either hope your friends have the power to protect you, or you give him something in hopes he'll go away. So does Herioneous's power cease the moment the first blow is landed?  Does Hextor loose his sway the moment troops break formation?  When you wade into the fray, does Kord's strength leave your body?  I don't think that during the course of the battle one god suddenly gains power over the others depending on the conditions--I thinks it more they can all influence the battle to the same degree, and it all really boils down to the strength and power of their followers.  (Actually, I rather think the gods have some sort of detente set up--'you limit your powers, and I limit mine'.  Also, if nobody prays to them, they generally aren't interested in the battle...)They are different philosophies, I'll grant you.  And some people might try to appease them all.  But for most, I think it will come down to calling on the ones who fit your mindset.   So why the bleeding heck do gods have the freakin' sphere of protection in the first place?  I'm sorry, but your tenent falls apart when you look at it closely--so Pelor, the light against darkness is powerless when darkness strikes?  Heironeous and St. Cuthbert are shouting about justice and honor but when the horde of goblins strike, you're on your own?  I don't think the moment Slaughter rears its head, every other god is suddenly powerless to stop it.  If anything, I see the divine situation as a sort detente--all of them try not to use their powers to the fullest because if they did a large chunk of the pantheon would unite to put them down.And?  So's Gruumsh.  I don't see everybody going to worship him the moment Orcs arrive.  Hell, so's Olidammara, and I'm betting that the average farmer isn't going to be visiting his temple--assuming he has one--anytime soon.  And--well, the whole two attacks a day paradigm has so many problems with it that I won't get into it--but let me put it this way--the goblins don't raid the town every day.  Erythnul can't slaughter everyone.  He is something that happens Every So Seldom.  To say simply because he's a god he's going to smite everyone who isn't his worshipper makes no sense because then all the other gods will just smite all his worshippers. Like I said--detente.  You don't go out of your way to get my flock, I don't go out of my way to get yours.  Oh, my priests are another matter--can't blame my boys for following my example, after all--but I personally, will keep out of it. A man can believe in love without honoring love, without feeling love to be worthy of worship, and without being in love himself.  Likewise, not worshiping Erythnul is not a matter of not believing in slaughter--it's a matter of not thinking slaughter to be worthy of worship.  Yes, some people will try to hedge their bets.  But some won't.Tell that to anyone who's ever suffered at the hands of an independent lunatic.  They'll set you straight.Well, this is largely a flavor discussion.  But personally I find the society you describe as a shade too unpleasant...</blockquote>

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