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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 9165455" data-attributes="member: 6690965">I get quite heated about this topic, because I think it's a complete misunderstanding of what a "challenge" is in the first place. The PCs goals should not align with specific obstacles that require specific solutions. Getting a thing out of a dungeon is a challenge, a locked door or a wall or a monster is not. PCs should be leveraging abilities (in the form of skill check results, spells, items, intrinsic properties of having a high strength score, etc.) against the world at large. Any obstacle that's resolved by the application of one ability isn't, and cannot be a challenge.There is a horrible tendency to equate "chance to roll well" with "challenge." There is no gameplay, nor skill tied to rolling a 17 or better on a die. The interesting bit is choosing to take a risk that requires you to do that (or noting that there is no risk and doing it until you succeed). The idea of knock removing/undermining a challenge, requires that the intended "challenge" be "roll good," and that's not engaging or interesting gameplay. I would rather play the game where the only way to open unlocked doors is the knock spell, and figuring out which two doors you really want open today, or in a 5e spell paradigm, if you can afford to open them all them but do all your fighting with cantrips, is the gameplay loop.</blockquote>