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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9169295" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I said I think most like the design and I stand by that statement.  I did not say all like it.Well in a new campaign, I am about to play an Encantment Wizard that will have no Enchantment spells at all until 3rd level probably.  You can think it is dumb all you want, and if you think it is dumb you probably should not build your character this way.  But part of player agency is letting me decide what is and is not dumb for my PC.I will tell you one spell I am going to have eventually, and that is Dissonant Whispers, which is not even on the Wizard list.No it shouldn't.  If you want to play like that you can play like that, but you should not tell other players how to play.I've got another character I am playing now who is a 19th level Bladesinger and real specializes in summing demons, Fey and Celestials and binding them, and she also binds Fey and Devil NPCs she comes across and manages to ensnare them.  She has several properties including a tower, a house and a warehouse that all have chambers just for this purpose.  This is not how I planned the character, but it is where the story drove her and it started well after she chose her subclass.Oh and she does not have the Wish spell at all.  She only has 3 9th level spells in her book - Psychic Scream, Gate and Foresight.  Other popular "must have" spells she does not have in her book include: Forcecage, Simulacrum, True Seeing, Synaptic Static, Dimension Door, Lemunds tiny Hut, Fireball, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern ....  Again, all my choice not to have these spells!Or let players decide what spells they want their PC Wizards to have!This is the thing that bothers me about all this, increasing options increases player agency and control over their character design.  Reducing it reduces this.Well I play lots of different characters, I generally find Wizards to be one of the more fun classes.  At very high levels most classes, including Wizards, become less fun.The most fun I have is with Rangers and Rogues.  Specifically Fey Wanderer Rangers (they are the only ones I play) that dump Constitution, max wisdom and play with a good Charisma and beat the Bards and Paladins on Charisma checks, running around with an Army of Fey on the battlefield and throwing around fear and charms like it is going out of style.I have fun with all kinds of Rogues, but I am usually loading up on skills and occasionally getting getting expertise in deception and good charisma and Disguise Self through something.</blockquote>

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