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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 5898208" data-attributes="member: 63508">Well lets put some applications to these faceless values.Using a rope.DC 0: Holding a top in your hand with no force on the other side. Impossible to fail unless you are clumsy or stressed.DC 10: Tying a firm knot. Impossible for a normal person to fail if not stressed. But with a straddle the normal person has a 50% chance of failure. The rope expert. (10) and rope master (+20) wont fail under stress thoughDC 15: Tying a common but special knot.  The normal guy will screw up a bit and only suceed ¼ of the time. He'll fail a few times but he'll eventually get it (via rerolls or Take 20)DC 20: Binding a professional thief. A normal person will most likely fail. The thief will get away unless the binder rolls a 20. Even if the thief is unconscious or doesn't struggle during the binding. The expert (+10) can always bind a helpless pro thief. If the thief moves during binding (but doesn't try to escape, just tries to screw up the knot) , the expert still has a 50% chance to succeed at the knot.DC 24: Throw and secure a trapping hook 75ft. A normal person can't do it period. An expert must roll high. A master just needs a decent roll or no stress.Now, one designer, I forget which one, has said they are doing Ability Score Thresholds where a high enough ability can remove the need to roll.Perhaps a master doesn't get a huge bonus. Instead the master is allowed a low threshold for autosuccess.  Tying a special know could be now a DC 20 or an autosuccess for any trained person with Dexterity of 15 or higher.The normals need a lot of time and retries (take 20) or get lucky (roll a 20). A trained character just needs to have Dex 15.The only issues is for for characters who SHOULD be experts but have the action based of a secondary ability.  Rangers using 13-14 Wisdom for survival skills ands perception. Rogues bluffing and charming their way out of jams with moderate Charisma. Clerics reciting divine history with medium Intelligence.   Etc.</blockquote>

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