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The Crab Bucket Fallacy
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9138036" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>....</p><p></p><p>You take a background no matter what. You are presenting this as something you <em>exchange</em> for something. You don't. Everyone takes a background. The Wizard gets <em>just as much</em> from "take a Background" as the Fighter does! That's why I keep calling this the "zero point." <em>It is where things START</em>. Everyone gets a background! It <em>does not</em> push anyone forward or back one iota!</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, I'm aware. Despite the vaunted rhetoric about 5e being so easy to homebrew and so much more welcoming to 3PP, the community's receptivity to such things is, in my experience, <em>extremely low</em>.</p><p></p><p>Uh...the Fighter cannot ever even CHOOSE to fly. The Wizard can. That's the exact difference I just articulated.</p><p></p><p>Further, <em>charm person</em> is far better than you give credit for--unless you have a DM actively trying to make spells worse. I don't assume such things (mostly because, in my experience, they're much less common than DMs who treat spells as auto-win buttons.) And it's not like <em>charm person</em> is even the best social spell! That would be either, as I said, <em>enhance ability</em>, choosing Eagle's Splendor, a mere one slot difference (trivial past 5th level) to get 95% of the effect of <em>charm person</em> with none of the negatives, or <em>suggestion</em>. Because <em>suggestion</em> is insanely powerful for shaping the behavior of others. <em>Detect thoughts</em> and Acquisitions Inc.'s <em>gift of gab</em> deserve honorable mention as well. If your DM actually rolls checks for NPCs (e.g. Insight checks) instead of just declaring how NPCs respond, <em>silvery barbs</em> is likewise amazing. Even <em>friends</em> has its uses--<u>disguise yourself</u> first, either as someone you know whom you'd like the target to hate, or as just some random Joe Schmoe, so you take no flak yourself.</p><p></p><p>And--get this--<em>Wizards can also be decent at Persuasion</em>. In fact, they're <em>better</em> at doing so until very high level, because they only really care about Intelligence; Dex and Con are <em>nice</em> to have, but not critical.</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="Social wizard build digression"]</p><p>Silverquill Student, Noble (or any of the derivative backgrounds based on it), Faction Agent (e.g. Harper or Zhentarim), or even Urban Bounty Hunter if you want to go for something a little more exotic especially since it includes Thieves' Tools. Play a half-elf, take 16 Int/16 Cha/14 Dex. You'll be a little squishy, but you'll have skills for days and be great at Charisma-related stuff specifically. Hell, if you <em>do</em> take Silverquill Student, now you've got an Int-based <em>vicious mockery</em>, a free once-a-day <em>command</em>, and free choice on your starting spells.</p><p></p><p>I would recommend <em>friends, fire bolt,</em> and <em>prestidigitation</em>, aiming to pick up <em>message</em> later on for the utility; for 1st-levels <em>magic missile</em> and <em>chromatic orb</em> give you all the offense you need, and <em>mage armor</em> and <em>shield</em> give you all the defense you need, so <em>find familiar</em> and <em>silvery barbs</em> round out the 1st-level roster. Pick up <em>disguise self</em> and <em>charm person</em> at 2nd; at level 3, <em>enhance ability</em> and your preferred offense spell, <em>Tasha's mind whip</em> and <em>scorching ray</em> are top contenders, and at level 4, grab <em>suggestion</em> and your preference among <em>detect thoughts, gift of gab,</em> or <em>invisibility</em> (a crazy useful spell for all seasons, not just social ones). Fill in more combat/utility effects with your 3rd level spells at 5th/6th since none of them are all that special for social stuff, and at higher levels, just keep on the lookout.</p><p></p><p>And note: I did not sacrifice <em>one iota</em> of combat prowess. This is still a Wizard who can deal versatile damage (<em>chromatic orb, magic missile</em>), protect herself quite well (<em>mage armor, shield</em>), buff her allies (<em>silvery barbs, invisibility, enhance ability</em>), and get some utility effects in as well, with <em>find familiar</em> providing a scout. Spend your extra cash on getting ritual spells, since they have the biggest bang for the buck.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p></p><p>Feats <em>that the Wizard can also take</em>. Again, <em>no progress is gained here</em>. There is nothing the Fighter can do that the Wizard cannot also do. Indeed, because Fighters definitely need at least two physical stats (Str/Dex and Con) <em>and</em> Charisma, they're in the hole--they need those extra ASIs <em>just to keep up with the Wizard</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Because if you never have moments like that, it means the class brings nothing special to the table <em>in the areas the game has told you are important.</em> It has been <em>intentionally</em> designed to be terrible at the very things they say "this is an ESSENTIAL part of play."</p><p></p><p>Designing something to contribute nothing whatsoever to something you've told players is an essential part of play is <em>bad design</em>. Period.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Because playtest content isn't current content? Because we are not talking about 5.5e? I've looked at the playtest Fighter. It is a very, very small step in the right direction. Tactical Mind now exists--and was literally only added <em>two weeks ago</em>. It took more than six months to get <em>one</em> weak feature that makes the Fighter class do something, <em>anything</em>, outside of combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's the first example MuhVerisimilitude used. Had you forgotten?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Heck, <em>even there</em> the fact that the playtest falls prey to the same problem is explicitly stated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9138036, member: 6790260"] .... You take a background no matter what. You are presenting this as something you [I]exchange[/I] for something. You don't. Everyone takes a background. The Wizard gets [I]just as much[/I] from "take a Background" as the Fighter does! That's why I keep calling this the "zero point." [I]It is where things START[/I]. Everyone gets a background! It [I]does not[/I] push anyone forward or back one iota! Yes, I'm aware. Despite the vaunted rhetoric about 5e being so easy to homebrew and so much more welcoming to 3PP, the community's receptivity to such things is, in my experience, [I]extremely low[/I]. Uh...the Fighter cannot ever even CHOOSE to fly. The Wizard can. That's the exact difference I just articulated. Further, [I]charm person[/I] is far better than you give credit for--unless you have a DM actively trying to make spells worse. I don't assume such things (mostly because, in my experience, they're much less common than DMs who treat spells as auto-win buttons.) And it's not like [I]charm person[/I] is even the best social spell! That would be either, as I said, [I]enhance ability[/I], choosing Eagle's Splendor, a mere one slot difference (trivial past 5th level) to get 95% of the effect of [I]charm person[/I] with none of the negatives, or [I]suggestion[/I]. Because [I]suggestion[/I] is insanely powerful for shaping the behavior of others. [I]Detect thoughts[/I] and Acquisitions Inc.'s [I]gift of gab[/I] deserve honorable mention as well. If your DM actually rolls checks for NPCs (e.g. Insight checks) instead of just declaring how NPCs respond, [I]silvery barbs[/I] is likewise amazing. Even [I]friends[/I] has its uses--[U]disguise yourself[/U] first, either as someone you know whom you'd like the target to hate, or as just some random Joe Schmoe, so you take no flak yourself. And--get this--[I]Wizards can also be decent at Persuasion[/I]. In fact, they're [I]better[/I] at doing so until very high level, because they only really care about Intelligence; Dex and Con are [I]nice[/I] to have, but not critical. [SPOILER="Social wizard build digression"] Silverquill Student, Noble (or any of the derivative backgrounds based on it), Faction Agent (e.g. Harper or Zhentarim), or even Urban Bounty Hunter if you want to go for something a little more exotic especially since it includes Thieves' Tools. Play a half-elf, take 16 Int/16 Cha/14 Dex. You'll be a little squishy, but you'll have skills for days and be great at Charisma-related stuff specifically. Hell, if you [I]do[/I] take Silverquill Student, now you've got an Int-based [I]vicious mockery[/I], a free once-a-day [I]command[/I], and free choice on your starting spells. I would recommend [I]friends, fire bolt,[/I] and [I]prestidigitation[/I], aiming to pick up [I]message[/I] later on for the utility; for 1st-levels [I]magic missile[/I] and [I]chromatic orb[/I] give you all the offense you need, and [I]mage armor[/I] and [I]shield[/I] give you all the defense you need, so [I]find familiar[/I] and [I]silvery barbs[/I] round out the 1st-level roster. Pick up [I]disguise self[/I] and [I]charm person[/I] at 2nd; at level 3, [I]enhance ability[/I] and your preferred offense spell, [I]Tasha's mind whip[/I] and [I]scorching ray[/I] are top contenders, and at level 4, grab [I]suggestion[/I] and your preference among [I]detect thoughts, gift of gab,[/I] or [I]invisibility[/I] (a crazy useful spell for all seasons, not just social ones). Fill in more combat/utility effects with your 3rd level spells at 5th/6th since none of them are all that special for social stuff, and at higher levels, just keep on the lookout. And note: I did not sacrifice [I]one iota[/I] of combat prowess. This is still a Wizard who can deal versatile damage ([I]chromatic orb, magic missile[/I]), protect herself quite well ([I]mage armor, shield[/I]), buff her allies ([I]silvery barbs, invisibility, enhance ability[/I]), and get some utility effects in as well, with [I]find familiar[/I] providing a scout. Spend your extra cash on getting ritual spells, since they have the biggest bang for the buck. [/SPOILER] Feats [I]that the Wizard can also take[/I]. Again, [I]no progress is gained here[/I]. There is nothing the Fighter can do that the Wizard cannot also do. Indeed, because Fighters definitely need at least two physical stats (Str/Dex and Con) [I]and[/I] Charisma, they're in the hole--they need those extra ASIs [I]just to keep up with the Wizard[/I]. Because if you never have moments like that, it means the class brings nothing special to the table [I]in the areas the game has told you are important.[/I] It has been [I]intentionally[/I] designed to be terrible at the very things they say "this is an ESSENTIAL part of play." Designing something to contribute nothing whatsoever to something you've told players is an essential part of play is [I]bad design[/I]. Period. Because playtest content isn't current content? Because we are not talking about 5.5e? I've looked at the playtest Fighter. It is a very, very small step in the right direction. Tactical Mind now exists--and was literally only added [I]two weeks ago[/I]. It took more than six months to get [I]one[/I] weak feature that makes the Fighter class do something, [I]anything[/I], outside of combat. It's the first example MuhVerisimilitude used. Had you forgotten? Heck, [I]even there[/I] the fact that the playtest falls prey to the same problem is explicitly stated. [/QUOTE]
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