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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Swarmkeeper" data-source="post: 9138166" data-attributes="member: 6921763">You're not wrong on these points.  But I don't think that your 5e points are as comprehensive as they might seem.For sake of discussion, I think it useful to also consider:1.  How about a Half-elf Silverquill Student Fighter 16 Dex/14 Con/16 Cha?  Better Dex and same Cha as your Wizard.  (Of course, my earlier argument is that any slight differences in skill proficiencies is not really noticeable in any one session due to small sample size and swinginess of the d20.  So there's that.  But I also understand it is really important to some players, so it is worth noting.)  Of course, yeah, Magic, but I think we'll keep this point about stats.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />2.  Would love to hear more about all these "strongest social utility spells in the game" that you are noting.  By my accounting - and I'm specifically looking at those spells that result in the Charmed condition so I could be overlooking some other good stuff here - Charm Person is the only one available at 1st tier and the target knows they were Charmed when it ends... which potentially brings on its own complications... which, don't get me wrong, could be a really fun part of the next challenge in the game.  Dominate Person doesn't come to bear until 9th level.  But is it worth taking and/or preparing and burning that 5th level slot over?  Maybe, maybe not.ETA:  ah, I see some of the other spells you've mentioned in [USER=6704184]@doctorbadwolf[/USER]'s response to you.  Some decent stuff there with enhance ability: eagle's splendor, gift of gab, and silvery barbs, I'll concede.  They, like any other spell used in social situations, all come with a cost, however, and aren't always applicable.  Eagle's splendor can be replicated via Inspiration (if your table uses it) or by Aiding Another or by DM adjudication if you lean into something particularly pertinent to the scene.  Nonetheless, I may grab silvery barbs for my chronurgy wizard in the session I'm not DMing as that could be fun one to spring in a social scene - similar to his Chronal Shift feature - appreciate the tip!3.  This is a collaborative game where a shared spotlight is encouraged.  That's both the responsibility of the DM and each of the players.  If the Wizard player is trying to dominate (or actually dominating) every social interaction scene without giving the Fighter player (or other players for that matter) a chance to contribute, we're entering territory beyond the mechanical rules.4.  This is a collaborative game which also means that players can be happy if another character is (or is perceived to be) better/stronger/faster/whatever at certain things at certain times that benefit the party.  Kudos!  Now we're likely closer to our shared goals.5.  Maybe the Fighter player knows all these points that have been discussed or perhaps doesn't or perhaps doesn't even care - if they aren't even interested in participating in social interaction and just want to pretend smash things, ok then.  None of your or my points even matter.  They are along for the ride and enjoying watching others move the story forward to the next combat.6.  Some other things that we haven't thought of (or stated) yet but might be important to other tables...</blockquote>

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