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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 9138683" data-attributes="member: 6801845">Which I disagree with.&nbsp; They are best at fighting, when it comes to out-of-combat fall behind rogues and bards because rogues and bards are supposed to be better since they are not as effective at combat.&nbsp; They're a bit more flexible than monks and barbarians (although monks can focus on dex and wisdom).&nbsp; The other classes?&nbsp; Just depends on where the player wanted to focus.They do not have to be lumps that sit around and grunt at the walls when out of combat.&nbsp; Although, of course that's also a completely viable option depending on the character concept.It does?&nbsp; Where?&nbsp; In any case, you can easily have a 14 charisma without sacrificing anything (assuming point buy).&nbsp; Heck, if it's really important you can start with a 16. Nothing is stopping you except extreme min-maxing.If there was a widespread desire for and a gaping hole in the archetypes you can play, perhaps there would be another class.&nbsp; I don't see either, and apparently neither does WOTC.&nbsp; There's always 3PP if you want something else in your game.&nbsp; Or heck, just play a different game and stop dissing on D&amp;D for a change.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 9138683, member: 6801845"] Which I disagree with. They are best at fighting, when it comes to out-of-combat fall behind rogues and bards because rogues and bards are supposed to be better since they are not as effective at combat. They're a bit more flexible than monks and barbarians (although monks can focus on dex and wisdom). The other classes? Just depends on where the player wanted to focus. They do not have to be lumps that sit around and grunt at the walls when out of combat. Although, of course that's also a completely viable option depending on the character concept. It does? Where? In any case, you can easily have a 14 charisma without sacrificing anything (assuming point buy). Heck, if it's really important you can start with a 16. Nothing is stopping you except extreme min-maxing. If there was a widespread desire for and a gaping hole in the archetypes you can play, perhaps there would be another class. I don't see either, and apparently neither does WOTC. There's always 3PP if you want something else in your game. Or heck, just play a different game and stop dissing on D&D for a change. [/QUOTE]

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