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<blockquote data-quote="Bendris Noulg" data-source="post: 1478981" data-attributes="member: 6398">Okay, as I know that none of my players do the 'net thing, I'm going to post an Aedon Spoiler (if you live near Cape Coral, Fl, and are interested in playing in an &quot;Aedon RPG&quot; game, don't read):&nbsp;[spoiler]I don't have Elves on Aedon because the are not native to Aedon.&nbsp; They are, however, native to another world and are, through a post-d20-evolved version of SpellJammer that I call The Azure Sea (a new Transitive Plane) about to stage a major invasion, resulting in a massive war that, in the simplest terms, will be focused on the followers of &quot;deities&quot; (Elves) versus the children of &quot;God&quot; (The race of Man, which includes Humans, Halflings, Dwarves, and Gnomes).&nbsp; In addition, the Elves are actually a thrall-race (Genetically and Psionicly enslaved) under the domination of the Zhival (Eden Studio's Liber Bestarius, although originally intended to be Illithid prior to Mind Flayers being removed from the &quot;official release&quot; of the SRD).&nbsp;However, from a player viewpoint, there is no such thing as an Elf.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because they've never existed on Aedon.&nbsp; Ever.&nbsp; And creating a reason for them not to exist beyond that would be, to me, akin to being deceitful to the players (i.e., how do I &quot;remove&quot; something that was &quot;never there&quot; when they are, in fact, somewhere else but have never been to Aedon?).&nbsp; It will then be a primary campaign focus to discover the invasion, unite those that can fight against them, defend Aedon, uncover the &quot;true&quot; rulers of the Elves, and then defeat them (possibly freeing the Elves or ensuring a conflict that will span ages).&nbsp;In short, &quot;They don't fit Aedon&quot; is the truth of the matter and anything else is either lying (which I am loath to do if there isn't a specific in-game reason for it, akin to a false rumor, half-remembered legend, or completely mixed up myth) or giving away part of the plot (&quot;They exist, but not here&quot;).&nbsp; The later brings serious baggage with it: It opens the door for a player who wants to be &quot;the only elf&quot; or &quot;the exception&quot; or &quot;the strange, long-eared infant found in the woods&quot;.&nbsp; Over all, &quot;they don't fit&quot; is the best answer possible: It's true and eliminates potential pestering from new group members that, quite frankly, I'd simply prefer not having to deal with.&nbsp;And, to be honest, I came up with the idea of making them an &quot;alien&quot; race when two of my players both said &quot;Good, I hate Elves&quot; upon hearing that the world didn't have Elves...&nbsp; That inspired me to use Elves as a major enemy-race as I determined that they would very much enjoy seeing them as evil villains (especially with game-play heading in the direction of Mass Combat via Fields of Blood).[/spoiler]&nbsp;Absolutely!&nbsp;Kinda like being &quot;tight fisted&quot; over a &quot;precious campaign&quot; that is really &quot;poorly thought out&quot;?&nbsp; Some strawmen on both sides of the fence, I'd say.&nbsp;Actually, the Core Books have more than a bit of spikey hair, don't you think?&nbsp;And my dad (aka, &quot;Pa, the educated redneck&quot;) called Coke &quot;Sody&quot; (don't ask, it's a southern Illinois thing...&nbsp; I think...).&nbsp;Well, if the player gets mad and huffy, than yes, it's being stubborn and storming off.&nbsp; More or less, it's the player's attitude about it (&quot;Oh, I see...&quot; vs &quot;WTF?!&nbsp; Why not!?&quot;) that counts.&nbsp;I think most of these comments are intended for two reasons.&nbsp;1. Not a part of Rokugan, which is acceptable to me; i.e., Rokugan supplements would have a harder time being dual-system since the d20 Races, Classes, and Feats in OA all have Lot5R counter-parts... &nbsp;2. &quot;Western&quot; holds true for Forgotten Realms where OA is the baseline (with minor changes) for Kara-Tur (FRCS actually describes Monks, or rather, their traditions, as coming from the East, IIRC, so the two coincide in that regard).&nbsp; It also suggests for Kara-Tur, IIRC, things like removing the Shugenja Class completely and renaming Shaman as Shugenja because that's more &quot;historically/mythically&quot; accurate and closer to the 1E Kara-Tur (which, when expanded to a box set, became a part of Toril).&nbsp;Now, the reason why we aren't supposed to consider Monks as &quot;Eastern&quot; in the default setting (Greyhawk) is actually related to the history of Oerth: There were two empires in the west that, in a war of great and powerful magic, laid waste to their lands (the southern is now the Sea of Dust, I believe, and the northern one is now a kind of barren, broken land with few resources and populated by wild barbarians).&nbsp; This mass destruction drove the survivors of these lands into the East, where another group of people already lived.&nbsp; It is this third group of people (whom were the Crimson Brotherhood in the original Gazetteer, don't know if that changed in later revisions of the setting) that the Monk class originates.&nbsp; So, in the default setting, the Monk isn't considered &quot;Eastern&quot; because the people of the West actually migrated into the East and there's nowhere east of that to come from.&nbsp;I'm sure someone more &quot;up to date&quot; with the setting can probably give more detail (as well as cultural names); I've not looked at a GH supplement since the initial 2E conversion Greyhawk Adventures, so my GH lore is a bit rusty, but I'm fairly sure I got the general events correct.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bendris Noulg, post: 1478981, member: 6398"] Okay, as I know that none of my players do the 'net thing, I'm going to post an Aedon Spoiler (if you live near Cape Coral, Fl, and are interested in playing in an "Aedon RPG" game, don't read): [spoiler]I don't have Elves on Aedon because the are not [i]native[/i] to Aedon. They are, however, native to another world and are, through a post-d20-evolved version of SpellJammer that I call The Azure Sea (a new Transitive Plane) about to stage a major invasion, resulting in a massive war that, in the simplest terms, will be focused on the followers of "deities" (Elves) versus the children of "God" (The race of Man, which includes Humans, Halflings, Dwarves, and Gnomes). In addition, the Elves are actually a thrall-race (Genetically and Psionicly enslaved) under the domination of the Zhival (Eden Studio's [i]Liber Bestarius[/i], although originally intended to be Illithid prior to Mind Flayers being removed from the "official release" of the SRD). However, from a player viewpoint, there is no such thing as an Elf. Why? Because they've never existed on Aedon. Ever. And creating a reason for them not to exist beyond that would be, to me, akin to being deceitful to the players (i.e., how do I "remove" something that was "never there" when they are, in fact, somewhere else but have never been to Aedon?). It will then be a primary campaign focus to discover the invasion, unite those that can fight against them, defend Aedon, uncover the "true" rulers of the Elves, and then defeat them (possibly freeing the Elves or ensuring a conflict that will span ages). In short, "They don't fit Aedon" is the truth of the matter and anything else is either lying (which I am loath to do if there isn't a specific in-game reason for it, akin to a false rumor, half-remembered legend, or completely mixed up myth) or giving away part of the plot ("They exist, but not here"). The later brings serious baggage with it: It opens the door for a player who wants to be "the only elf" or "the exception" or "the strange, long-eared infant found in the woods". Over all, "they don't fit" is the [i]best[/i] answer possible: It's true and eliminates potential pestering from new group members that, quite frankly, I'd simply prefer not having to deal with. And, to be honest, I came up with the idea of making them an "alien" race when two of my players both said "Good, I hate Elves" upon hearing that the world didn't have Elves... That inspired me to use Elves as a major enemy-race as I determined that they would very much enjoy seeing them as evil villains (especially with game-play heading in the direction of Mass Combat via [i]Fields of Blood[/i]).[/spoiler] Absolutely! Kinda like being "tight fisted" over a "precious campaign" that is really "poorly thought out"? Some strawmen on both sides of the fence, I'd say. Actually, the Core Books have more than a bit of spikey hair, don't you think? And my dad (aka, "Pa, the educated redneck") called Coke "Sody" (don't ask, it's a southern Illinois thing... I think...). Well, if the player gets mad and huffy, than yes, it's being stubborn and storming off. More or less, it's the player's attitude about it ("Oh, I see..." vs "WTF?! Why not!?") that counts. I think most of these comments are intended for two reasons. 1. Not a part of Rokugan, which is acceptable to me; i.e., Rokugan supplements would have a harder time being dual-system since the d20 Races, Classes, and Feats in OA all have Lot5R counter-parts... 2. "Western" holds true for Forgotten Realms where OA is the baseline (with minor changes) for Kara-Tur (FRCS actually describes Monks, or rather, their traditions, as coming [i]from[/i] the East, IIRC, so the two coincide in that regard). It also suggests for Kara-Tur, IIRC, things like removing the Shugenja Class completely and renaming Shaman as Shugenja because that's more "historically/mythically" accurate and closer to the 1E Kara-Tur (which, when expanded to a box set, became a part of Toril). Now, the reason why we aren't supposed to consider Monks as "Eastern" in the default setting (Greyhawk) is actually related to the history of Oerth: There were two empires in the west that, in a war of great and powerful magic, laid waste to their lands (the southern is now the Sea of Dust, I believe, and the northern one is now a kind of barren, broken land with few resources and populated by wild barbarians). This mass destruction drove the survivors of these lands into the East, where another group of people already lived. It is this third group of people (whom were the Crimson Brotherhood in the original Gazetteer, don't know if that changed in later revisions of the setting) that the Monk class originates. So, in the default setting, the Monk isn't considered "Eastern" because the people of the West actually migrated [i]into[/i] the East and there's nowhere east of that to come from. I'm sure someone more "up to date" with the setting can probably give more detail (as well as cultural names); I've not looked at a GH supplement since the initial 2E conversion [i]Greyhawk Adventures[/i], so my GH lore is a bit rusty, but I'm fairly sure I got the general events correct. [/QUOTE]

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