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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 1487270" data-attributes="member: 2067">I'll address the specific powers, first, just changing the flavor text:-------Good BAB: Well, it's something warriors getGood Fort save, bad Reflex and Will saves: So they're good at gritting their teeth, but not so much at the dodge or the willpower. Prolly why they keep the clerics around for advice. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> But nothing out of line with any kind of warrior yet.d10 HD: A front line kind of guy, who wants to suck up the blows.2 Skill Ponits/Level; Skills related to religion, spellcasting, animals, and nobility: Hmmm, here's a bit of implied flavor. We've got 'em casting spells (good for a defender of the Temple of the Sun), being religious (it is a temple...), being nobles (they interact with foreigners, smooth over relations with allies; I don't think there's ever been a big religious group that's not in good with the local government, so that works), and dealing with the wildlife (every temple needs your animal sacrifices! The royal Quetzal birds and the dogs need to be taken care of, too).Aura of Good: Well, now we're getting a bit cultural, but let's run with the idea that the Temple of the Sun devotes itself to a cause of Good. Makes sense that a holy warrior would shed out this kind of energy.Detect Evil: Again, something 'warriors of goodness' would get.Smite Evil: Okay, I get the point, it's a warrior of goodness! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Nothing either Charlamagne-specific or Western-specific yet...just warrior + goodness (and a bit of religous nobility with the skills).Divine Grace: Well, good saving throws for being stylish and loved by the masses certainly supports that whole nobility idea. So they definately aren't social outcasts, probably.Lay on Hands: Well, they like to heal their friends, who doesn't? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Since this is D&D, and clerics = healers, it links them to religion better. So now we got Good + Noble + Religion + Warrior.Aura of Courage: Pretty good to stay and fight (warrior), and to avoid looking like a coward (nobility)....hmm, I don't see anything referencing the Crusades yet....or flaying flesh and wearing it around...Divine Health: Unbelievably useful for a jungle setting. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> And it further links them with clerics, healers, and religion.Turn Undead: I don't know of many Temples of the Sun that like encouraging those buried under them to rise up and fight; plus Undead are by-the-mechanics evil by nature, so it works with the whole Good aspect, *and* with the whole Religion aspect (linking them better with clerics). So, still Noble Religious Warrior of Goodness...what could make you think Charlamagne, lemme think....maybe it's the --Special Mount? True, there's not a lot of horses in the jungles of historical Mesoamerica, but I don't see any threat to my campaign's flavor by allowing them. It's not like 'horses' gives any particular strong cultural feel; a lot of South American Gauchos use them to this very day, and they were certainly popular when they were introduced in the mesa regions of Mexico, where places like Teotihuacan flourished (odly enough, where the original Temple of the Sun is located!). So there are horses for these Noble Religious Warriors of Goodness to ride; probably part of the royal stable, specially held in high regard by the emperor. Taking the mechanics without any alterations, I could even overlay a new flavor on them. They're no longer warhorses -- they're WARLLAMA! Just like horses, but now they can be milked and can give wool; no mechanics changes whatsoever. Or maybe I'd rather have 'jungle horses', that'd work too. Horses who have non-mechanics-affecting special adaptations for the jungle. Or I could take the PHB's suggestion of selecting another kind of mount -- they suggest riding dogs for halflings, and sharks (which are pretty powerful critters, when compared to warponies!) for aquatic campaigns...maybe these Mesoamerican paladins are known for riding Apes! Or Camels (which would, now that I think about it, be a better fit for Llamas, since they're more closely related)! Or Large Vipers (think of the Feathered serpent after all)! Heck, by the rules, I could allow dire wolves, hippogriffs, giant eagles or owls, pegasai, rhinoceroses, dire lions, and hippogriffs, if the Paladin is willing to wait a level or five. Imagine that, the default D&D world has, on occasion, paladins astride rhinoceroses. I think Charlamagne would crap himself! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />BUT, I'm trying to stay within the exact, stringent rules and see if it still fits, so there we go. The Paladins of the Temple of the Sun have special horse mounts. Horses are now not introduced -- they're indigenous to the mesa area. Though I suppose if I have a problem with that, even a ruleslawyer would have to permit me to change it. But no problem. Horses are okay.Divine Magic: Well, this is largely part-and-parcel of the "Religious" quality, and I don't see any that add anything to the 'implied setting by the rules' so far beyond the Noble Religious Horse-Riding Warrior of Goodness. Remove Disease: Pretty much like Divine Health, but now our Templar of the Sun can spread the love around a bit.---------So, there are the entire mechanics for the Paladin class, and every speck of flavor they entail. I can see Mesoamerican Wearer of Flayed Skin in that just as easily as I can see Charlamagne. I can see a Samurai in there, too. Or a Hun. Or a Pharoah's Calvalry. Or a Cowboy (!). As far as this goes, the potential is all in how you look at it. The mechanics of the Paladin class no more specifcy Crusaders in Medieval Europe than they specify Cowboys. At least, that's surely the way it looks to me.As for the naitive Mesoamerican Holy Warrior, sure, he's good too. But it it's just one guy who likes the Paladin class and wants a campaign to play in, it's really not worth my time to whip up an entirely new class for him and hope that it fullfills the same need he gets out of the Paladin. Or if I already have a Mesoamerican Holy Warrior class, perhaps that doesn't exactly fulfill his need, as a fan of the mounted religious warrior of goodness (which is kinda hard to emulate with a class whose main powers deal in capturing people and ripping out their hearts to keep the cosmos functioning). When I can just use the bones of the Paladin class (the mechanics of it), and overlay my own setting's flavor, it keeps us both happy: I get a player who likes to be a bit creative to play in my setting without violating it, and he gets a character he likes playing.If he came in there demanding to play Charlamagne, I'd still tell him he'd be dissapointed. "Sorry, I gots no muslims to kill, mang!" But if he came there wanting to play a member of the Paladin class (a Religious Noble Horse-Riding Warrior of Goodness), I see no reason to be difficult about it.</blockquote>

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