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Message: <blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 1340841" data-attributes="member: 812">You'll fit right in, then! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I'm still treating the bruises left over from my scrap with reapersaurus on all these issues. Ouch. Reaper's got a mean left cross.K. Objectivity vs. Subjectivity.The simple fact is that there are NO objective standards of art. Sorry, folks, but no matter how obvious you may think it is that work X is superior to work Y, you can't claim objective superiority.Just to take the example provided, I would argue that Mrs. Frisby and the Secret of NIMH is in fact a better book than Ulysses. But then I think Joyce is crap that's been foisted off on us by a bunch of jaded critics who wouldn't know a good story if it kicked them in their Gor-required anatomical regions.Here's the thing. If I say it is an objective fact that the speed of light is constant throughout the universe, the only way people will agree that it's objective (leaving aside the question of whether or not it's true) is if it is possible to devise tests that will only produce a particular result if that fact happens to be true. If it's not possible to devise such tests, then it is not true that the idea is an objective fact.Just because everyone agrees on a point of view doesn't make it objective. Just because it's TRUE doesn't make it objective.It is not possible to devise such tests against works of art. Philosophers have been trying for all of human civilization and believe me, you are not smarter than their collective brainpower. If they can't do it, you can't do it.One of the more amusing things about the objective/subjective arguments in art discussion is how both sides get used in order to weasel out of supporting one's opinion. I can claim that all opinion is subjective anyway, so why should I defend my position, or I can claim that the superiority of work X is an objective fact, and spare myself the effort of explaining why.Forget about all that. State your opinion about the work, and explain why. The words "subjective" and "objective" are just red herrings in all this -- they don't add any value to anyone's opinions. You have to support your ideas if you want others to accept them. No support, no acceptance, and saying they're objective truths or subjective opinions won't change that.On another topic entirely, I love how these threads spiral out into a hundred different conversations. More hijacks!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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