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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jester47" data-source="post: 1341436" data-attributes="member: 2238">I have come to loathe serial (as in series of books) fantasy.  I have not read any Jordan, or Martin however I do have plans to try- that way I can dis them all the better.  But since I have not read them, I cant really say anything at this juncture.  I also hate big long fantasy novels that are not self contained.  I am of the firm belief that the better writer can WRITE LESS and get MORE STORY into the book than the others.  One project that I fantasise about is ripping off Wheel of Time but doing it in a thousand pages.  Who is going to get read more?  Me or Jordan?  Its S. Morgenstern Vs. William Goldman all over again.  (both are the same guy, but if you understand what Goldman is saying in the Princess Bride you understand that really great stories can be contained in very long and boring books.)I am a big fan however of linked short stories and shared worlds.  Ala Conan, Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser, The structure Dennis McKiernan employs (I recently finished dragondoom (and well, that was when I realised that the only really good book of his was Eye of the Hunter all the other books seem to exist to answer questions about the background) Peter S. Beagle is my hero when it comes to the fight against the series mania.  The Last Unicorn is self contained.  Giant Bones is a series of short stories that take place in the world of The Inkeeper's Song.  Still both of those are kept corralled.  Which brings me to what I think is the greatest fantasy book of all time-The Hobbit.  Heres why-The story is epic in scope.  It CAN stand alone, one does not have to go and read the lord of the rings to completely enjoy it.  It is amasingly influential, more so I would say than LotR.  And it is quite readable.  None of the criticisms that bog down the Lord of the Rings really aply to it, and it is open and enjoyable for all ages.  and guess what?  Its only 300 some odd pages long.  Its a standard novel length.  Sure we get more of tolkiens vision in LotR, but the Hobbit is the grand daddy of them all.  The Last Unicorn makes for a close second IMO, but thats just my O.I think that in general, big epics should be contained in about a thousand pages, adventure should fit into a third of that.  If its longer than that, you need to find better ways of telling the story.  Then support your world with short stories, poems, songs etc.  You will be much more appreciated.  Oh, and Tolkein published using his own name and did not have to borrow one from a Hemmingway novel (For Whom the Bell Tolls) like Mr. James Oliver Rigney, Jr. The reason I think (I was told this) that the Jordanology is becoming more and more prevalent is that people use these books to fill time.  While they are riding the bus, waiting in a waiting room, and in those small mooments where you really are not doing anything.  Thus a bigger book and ongoing story the more economical the purchase.  Basicly a soap opera in book form.  The Three Musketeers were published with the same thing in mind.  These were long serials published over days and years.  Basicly with Rigney (Jordan) you are getting more at once.  Ok that should feed the thread for a while... Aaron.</blockquote>

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