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<blockquote data-quote="BrokenTwin" data-source="post: 9563001" data-attributes="member: 7017978">It confuses me when people talk about the reasons for 4E 'failing' always seem to omit just how weirdly aggressive and bad the marketing was for, like, all of it? So much of marketing I saw for that edition seemed like it was deliberately antagonizing their customers. And even the 4E fans (like myself) were confused as to whether Essentials was supposed to be a replacement or addition to the base game, which is a straight up design/marketing failure of its own.Not saying 4E didn't have mechanical issues (the monster math only being properly solved by MM3 certainly didn't help), but there were just so many bad faith arguments about 4E at the time (and even today) that it made arguing in good faith even against valid complaints difficult.And yes, there's definitely been a 4E Renaissance in the last few years, and it is amazing. I doubt it will ever hit OSR level, but it's still great to see people finally taking what was excellent about the edition and running with it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BrokenTwin, post: 9563001, member: 7017978"] It confuses me when people talk about the reasons for 4E 'failing' always seem to omit just how weirdly aggressive and bad the marketing was for, like, all of it? So much of marketing I saw for that edition seemed like it was deliberately antagonizing their customers. And even the 4E fans (like myself) were confused as to whether Essentials was supposed to be a replacement or addition to the base game, which is a straight up design/marketing failure of its own. Not saying 4E didn't have mechanical issues (the monster math only being properly solved by MM3 certainly didn't help), but there were just so many bad faith arguments about 4E at the time (and even today) that it made arguing in good faith even against valid complaints difficult. And yes, there's definitely been a 4E Renaissance in the last few years, and it is amazing. I doubt it will ever hit OSR level, but it's still great to see people finally taking what was excellent about the edition and running with it. [/QUOTE]

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