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<blockquote data-quote="mamba" data-source="post: 9564836" data-attributes="member: 7034611">I am not convinced of that, it could be accidentally vague, it could be bad memory or a lack of actual data.The point that remains is that it was the worst selling edition, sales tanked fast, and attempts to revive it with Essentials failed. Resulting in it also being the shortest lived edition (unless you count 3.5 and 3e as separate but 4e and Essentials as one).Was it a good game? It certainly was different and divisive and found its fans. I am not sure why the fans have to try to pretend that it did well and only WotC’s greed and unreasonable expectations killed it. It can be good and not commercially successful (enough), it can be bad and a hit, the two are not closely correlated.Most TTRPGs never are close to as successful as D&amp;D, does that mean they are all inferior? I don’t think so.So focus on what was good about it instead of trying to rewrite how it fared in the marketplace.Tell us about the games in this supposed resurgence and what is good about them and how they carry the 4e torch, but maybe also how they differ. Seeing Draw Steel in that list makes it feel pretty broad. It shares some high level design goals with 4e, but mechanically it is very different.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mamba, post: 9564836, member: 7034611"] I am not convinced of that, it could be accidentally vague, it could be bad memory or a lack of actual data. The point that remains is that it was the worst selling edition, sales tanked fast, and attempts to revive it with Essentials failed. Resulting in it also being the shortest lived edition (unless you count 3.5 and 3e as separate but 4e and Essentials as one). Was it a good game? It certainly was different and divisive and found its fans. I am not sure why the fans have to try to pretend that it did well and only WotC’s greed and unreasonable expectations killed it. It can be good and not commercially successful (enough), it can be bad and a hit, the two are not closely correlated. Most TTRPGs never are close to as successful as D&D, does that mean they are all inferior? I don’t think so. So focus on what was good about it instead of trying to rewrite how it fared in the marketplace. Tell us about the games in this supposed resurgence and what is good about them and how they carry the 4e torch, but maybe also how they differ. Seeing Draw Steel in that list makes it feel pretty broad. It shares some high level design goals with 4e, but mechanically it is very different. [/QUOTE]

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