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<blockquote data-quote="BrokenTwin" data-source="post: 9564857" data-attributes="member: 7017978">Maybe 4E enjoyers wouldn't be fighting over the details of whether 4E sold well or not so much if the 4E haters didn't bring it up literally every time 4E is mentioned? Unless you happen to have direct access to WotC sales data, it's all at best second hand conjecture anyway.* For the record, I don't care whether 4E sold as well or worse than 3.x or whatever other edition you want to compare it to. I just want to stop hearing about that talking point.And a number of the examples upthread specifically call out D&amp;D 4E as a direct inspiration (like Gubat Banwa). LANCER is Shadow of the Demon Lord fused with D&amp;D 4E in vast swathes of its design language, but in a mecha setting. Heck, it really isn't that hard to argue that Pathfinder 2 has a lot of D&amp;D 4E in its DNA.Having said that, I don't know if there's any (relatively) popular 4E retroclones at the moment, but I'm not even sure that's possible with the more restrictive license that 4E operated under.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BrokenTwin, post: 9564857, member: 7017978"] Maybe 4E enjoyers wouldn't be fighting over the details of whether 4E sold well or not so much if the 4E haters didn't bring it up literally every time 4E is mentioned? Unless you happen to have direct access to WotC sales data, it's all at best second hand conjecture anyway. * For the record, I don't [I]care[/I] whether 4E sold as well or worse than 3.x or whatever other edition you want to compare it to. I just want to stop hearing about that talking point. And a number of the examples upthread specifically call out D&D 4E as a direct inspiration (like Gubat Banwa). LANCER is Shadow of the Demon Lord fused with D&D 4E in vast swathes of its design language, but in a mecha setting. Heck, it really isn't that hard to argue that Pathfinder 2 has a lot of D&D 4E in its DNA. Having said that, I don't know if there's any (relatively) popular 4E retroclones at the moment, but I'm not even sure that's possible with the more restrictive license that 4E operated under. [/QUOTE]

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