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Message: <blockquote data-quote="payn" data-source="post: 9571670" data-attributes="member: 90374">I’ve come to think of it this way. D&D always had roles that could be applied tactically to great effect. MMOs required it, which is how 4E/PF2 felt to me as well. The roles in D&D were finally defined and mechanics given to match. 5E pulled back to previous D&D where a savvy group would use the tactics to good effect, but could fumble around like unherdable cats and still move forward.I think the tactical knowledge lends itself better to video games because you can ply them whenever with whoever, but TTRPGs are a slower more casual experience so the 4E design pushed a lot of those folks out. YMMVThat’s exactly how MMO play felt to me and the same feeling I got from 4E even if the mechanical application was different.</blockquote>