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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jacob Lewis" data-source="post: 9572414" data-attributes="member: 6667921">PF2 took a lot of good ideas from 4e, but I'm never going to accept that it occupies the same space as 4e, or even D&D for that matter. And that is entirely my point. PF2 is better because it wasn't beholden to prior systems or legacies. It broke some molds and redesigned some old ideas, but in many ways, it has become it's own thing.4e was a good system. Where it failed, it is usually compared to every other edition of D&D. People who didn't like it often complained about how some things changed, or weren't included, or it didn't feel like D&D. And though I genuinely liked this version of D&D, it was because it was very different than other editions I had played before. And I loved that! In act, my biggest gripes were when they didn't get farther away from the old tropes and expectations. To me, it was a half-arsed or hamstrung attempt to do otherwise.When I say it shouldn't be D&D, I don't mean the name itself. I mean the implications and expectations of what people think has to be included to ensure the name is worn appropriately needs to be jettisoned before you can truly start to innovate. Otherwise, you're just circling the same track with another pony. 4e could have been the start of a whole new kind of RPG, but they wouldn't be able to do it while flying the D&D banner.</blockquote>