Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Promotions/Press
The D&D 4th edition Rennaissaince: A look into the history of the edition, its flaws and its merits
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Retreater" data-source="post: 9573983" data-attributes="member: 42040"><p>Most recently, I had run it often at my FLGS for D&D Encounters. That was a very different experience than in a home game.</p><p>1) The sessions were designed to be short with one combat encounter and maybe one trap, puzzle, social situation. The home experience of running for 4 hours was exhausting and repetitive.</p><p>2) Players either had access to the D&D 4e tools OR sufficient play aids existed for them to take a pregen. In my case, I was the only one with the 4e tools, so I had to manage all the PCs.</p><p>3) Encounters seasons covered levels 1-3 then started over. In the home game, complicated strings of reactions, triggered actions, magic item effects, etc, slowed combat to a crawl. </p><p>4) Creating my own adventures was a hassle because I had to make tactically interesting encounters AND roleplaying AND award appropriate magic items, etc. 4E adventures are bad. I started off trying to run a season of D&D Encounters, but the players balked at the restrictions that were placed on the organized play structure (such as using daily powers once per chapter). </p><p>5) I'm not as young as I was then. It was physically exhausting. It's hard to explain, but I felt like I had been in a real fight every week after the session ended. </p><p>6) Times have changed and I don't think 4E holds up. There are easier, faster, and more satisfying ways to do tactical combat: Gloomhaven, Baldurs Gate 3, Pathfinder 2 on Foundry VTT, etc. There are skirmish-level wargames like Kill Team and War Cry. </p><p>7) The design isn't interesting to me. Let's look at what a 1st level character gets: 2 at-will, 1 encounter, 1 daily power. Each combat, you have these choices. Sure, there are more choices than you might have as a 1st level character in another edition, but the combats take longer, and you need more of them to advance (than you do in 5e anyway). And now that there are 30 levels, you need more encounters to reach the "endgame." </p><p>It's so boring. And I timed this. At 7th level, we were talking 45 minutes to go around the table once. I had a character who was stunned and unable to act for two of those turns. The player sat there and did nothing for an hour and a half, except getting bored and distracting the other players. </p><p></p><p>Essentially, the juice of 4E isn't worth the squeeze. Combats should take half the time. Scenarios should be laid out like you'd find in Gloomhaven. To be interesting, characters should probably have 5+ powers they can choose from. Actions should require one roll and do a static amount of damage based on the roll (and trigger an effect based on that roll). Average monsters should die in 2-3 hits.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Retreater, post: 9573983, member: 42040"] Most recently, I had run it often at my FLGS for D&D Encounters. That was a very different experience than in a home game. 1) The sessions were designed to be short with one combat encounter and maybe one trap, puzzle, social situation. The home experience of running for 4 hours was exhausting and repetitive. 2) Players either had access to the D&D 4e tools OR sufficient play aids existed for them to take a pregen. In my case, I was the only one with the 4e tools, so I had to manage all the PCs. 3) Encounters seasons covered levels 1-3 then started over. In the home game, complicated strings of reactions, triggered actions, magic item effects, etc, slowed combat to a crawl. 4) Creating my own adventures was a hassle because I had to make tactically interesting encounters AND roleplaying AND award appropriate magic items, etc. 4E adventures are bad. I started off trying to run a season of D&D Encounters, but the players balked at the restrictions that were placed on the organized play structure (such as using daily powers once per chapter). 5) I'm not as young as I was then. It was physically exhausting. It's hard to explain, but I felt like I had been in a real fight every week after the session ended. 6) Times have changed and I don't think 4E holds up. There are easier, faster, and more satisfying ways to do tactical combat: Gloomhaven, Baldurs Gate 3, Pathfinder 2 on Foundry VTT, etc. There are skirmish-level wargames like Kill Team and War Cry. 7) The design isn't interesting to me. Let's look at what a 1st level character gets: 2 at-will, 1 encounter, 1 daily power. Each combat, you have these choices. Sure, there are more choices than you might have as a 1st level character in another edition, but the combats take longer, and you need more of them to advance (than you do in 5e anyway). And now that there are 30 levels, you need more encounters to reach the "endgame." It's so boring. And I timed this. At 7th level, we were talking 45 minutes to go around the table once. I had a character who was stunned and unable to act for two of those turns. The player sat there and did nothing for an hour and a half, except getting bored and distracting the other players. Essentially, the juice of 4E isn't worth the squeeze. Combats should take half the time. Scenarios should be laid out like you'd find in Gloomhaven. To be interesting, characters should probably have 5+ powers they can choose from. Actions should require one roll and do a static amount of damage based on the roll (and trigger an effect based on that roll). Average monsters should die in 2-3 hits. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Promotions/Press
The D&D 4th edition Rennaissaince: A look into the history of the edition, its flaws and its merits
Top