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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5292534" data-attributes="member: 82106">There was another type of monster back in the AD&D days that was in many ways like an elite or solo, something like a Hill Giant used against a lower level party. It had ordinary defenses, like AC4 or something and loads of hit dice and its attacks did heavy damage. The party would probably win against these monsters but someone would likely get mashed flat since 2 hits would be generally lethal.The difference really is that in AD&D in particular defensive and offensive capability were highly decoupled from each other. A monster could have a terrible AC that even a 1st level PC stood a decent chance of hitting and still be a 10+ HD monster. Of course it was also hard to properly gage the challenge of encounters in AD&D and became practically impossible to do it well at high levels.One thing that you CAN do in 4e is somewhat relax the lockstep of to-hit, defenses, and hit points. It can make encounters more swingy but it can also allow some of them to be more thematic and interesting, particularly at low levels. There's also no reason why you can't create monsters that are graded between solo and elite. There's a pretty big difference between the two and making a monster halfway in between  can sometimes work. Remember, monster design guidelines are GUIDELINES, not rules.So, if I were to want a nasty boss goblin I might well break out of the standard and say make it something close to an elite but with a bit more offense than a standard elite and maybe a few more hit points but basically make it equal to 3 monsters instead of 2 or 5. Any discussion of solo/boss monster action economy however is going to equally apply here for the most part.Honestly Eamon, the problem with your "issues" with 4e solos is that you haven't really done anything constructive. I think you're making mountains out of molehills and then we're not seeing where anything NEW is being added. At the very most generous it is a complaint without a remedy, but honestly if you're players are so focused on the mechanics of the monster that they're having problems believing in it then I would suggest that the issue is largely with the presentation of the challenge. There's very little else for the players to pay attention to if they are hung up with a save bonus and whatever. Try giving them other things to think about and create more variety. Don't make your goblin badass a straight up goblin. Make him Mokrug Goblincrusher, chosen champion of Maglubiyet who grew strong on troll meat. He wields the mighty club Elf Slayer and you meet him on the Bridge of Trials in the Laughing Cave (lots of climbing, swinging from vines, etc involved, plus a few interesting features). The battle involves getting past Mokrug so you can stop the goblin shaman from sacrificing the Blessed Child to open the Feywild Gate. Nobody is going to be noticing much about mechanics here...</blockquote>

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