Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The D&D Boss Fight
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5292633" data-attributes="member: 51942"><p>I'm seeing this in games I play in as a player. The solo mechanics are so overwhelmingly obvious tactically - and obviously <em>relevant</em> - that it's not a mistake to recognize them, it's a necessary conclusion that follows from their design. Having 5 times as many hitpoints, odd extra action attacks, weird otherwise almost never occuring resilience to all effects and stuns/dazes in particular - these commonalities bind solos more strongly to each other than to their fluff.</p><p></p><p>Let's compare this to 3e spellcasters for instance. Spellcasters in 3e were often a first target and exceptionally threatening not because this was some fluff agreement - the mechanics meant they were less predictable, often less hardy, and frequently quite dangeous in surprising ways. Now, you could fluff that, and still tell the same tale - but it's no longer necessary in 4e. Spellcasters are no longer overpowering nor their effects much less predictable than primal or martial classes. Nor are they necessarily less hardy. Fluff works best when it tells a <em>meaningful</em> story. Now, people think in terms of soldiers/defenders, controllers, leaders, etc. You believe in these names because in the game they're no mere myth, they really matter.</p><p></p><p>No amount of brilliant fluff will hide the fact that solos mechanics are very similar to each other. People will respond to the <em>solo</em> - because it matters. When fluff and mechanics match, the harmony of the two works much better that when they don't.</p><p></p><p>That's a great tale, and I'd enjoy it. But 4e is a very tactically oriented game. Players <em>will</em> realize it's a solo almost instantly based on the description alone. They'll adapt their strategies - which are pretty complex nowadays - to the tactical realities of the game. The good players will interject a bit of flavor into their actions. But at the end of the day, they'll be fighting a solo; it's just instinct to ignore the irrelevant.</p><p></p><p>There is a solution - don't use solos, or use them only very sparingly. The quintessential solo is the game's namesake; the dragon: use the solo template only on creatures whose tactical characteristics strongly resemble a dragon in-game. If you need a special monster with special abilities - don't base if off a template that is instantly recognizable and who's features will dominate whatever you add yourself, and don't undermine the fluff by granting illogical abilities for purely mechanical reasons. If the story doesn't make sense, fix it, don't plow ahead and pretend it does. Doing this isn't that hard; give the critter backup; consumable minions, a resurrecting crystal, or something else - and make sure the fluff for that exceptional ability is woven into your tale well before the actual encounter - preferably several sessions earlier or more.</p><p></p><p>People will listen to your story much, much more closely when they figure out all that fluff actually matters and will actually remains relevant in weeks and months to come. They'll enjoy but otherwise ignore fluff that has no purpose in your story.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eamon, post: 5292633, member: 51942"] I'm seeing this in games I play in as a player. The solo mechanics are so overwhelmingly obvious tactically - and obviously [I]relevant[/I] - that it's not a mistake to recognize them, it's a necessary conclusion that follows from their design. Having 5 times as many hitpoints, odd extra action attacks, weird otherwise almost never occuring resilience to all effects and stuns/dazes in particular - these commonalities bind solos more strongly to each other than to their fluff. Let's compare this to 3e spellcasters for instance. Spellcasters in 3e were often a first target and exceptionally threatening not because this was some fluff agreement - the mechanics meant they were less predictable, often less hardy, and frequently quite dangeous in surprising ways. Now, you could fluff that, and still tell the same tale - but it's no longer necessary in 4e. Spellcasters are no longer overpowering nor their effects much less predictable than primal or martial classes. Nor are they necessarily less hardy. Fluff works best when it tells a [I]meaningful[/I] story. Now, people think in terms of soldiers/defenders, controllers, leaders, etc. You believe in these names because in the game they're no mere myth, they really matter. No amount of brilliant fluff will hide the fact that solos mechanics are very similar to each other. People will respond to the [I]solo[/I] - because it matters. When fluff and mechanics match, the harmony of the two works much better that when they don't. That's a great tale, and I'd enjoy it. But 4e is a very tactically oriented game. Players [I]will[/I] realize it's a solo almost instantly based on the description alone. They'll adapt their strategies - which are pretty complex nowadays - to the tactical realities of the game. The good players will interject a bit of flavor into their actions. But at the end of the day, they'll be fighting a solo; it's just instinct to ignore the irrelevant. There is a solution - don't use solos, or use them only very sparingly. The quintessential solo is the game's namesake; the dragon: use the solo template only on creatures whose tactical characteristics strongly resemble a dragon in-game. If you need a special monster with special abilities - don't base if off a template that is instantly recognizable and who's features will dominate whatever you add yourself, and don't undermine the fluff by granting illogical abilities for purely mechanical reasons. If the story doesn't make sense, fix it, don't plow ahead and pretend it does. Doing this isn't that hard; give the critter backup; consumable minions, a resurrecting crystal, or something else - and make sure the fluff for that exceptional ability is woven into your tale well before the actual encounter - preferably several sessions earlier or more. People will listen to your story much, much more closely when they figure out all that fluff actually matters and will actually remains relevant in weeks and months to come. They'll enjoy but otherwise ignore fluff that has no purpose in your story. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The D&D Boss Fight
Top